you know what scares me is that you are back in town a few days ago and you noticed this, your relative already knew about it, so naturally I would assume that a lot of people know about it, and so naturally in a well watched country we live in, nothing goes by un-noticed unless someone decided to turn a blind eye!

25 minutes later! efficient smalla!

this is disgusting, it really is, ya3ni hon mit3awdeh bi dubai wherever u go fi hal manazer, bas ya a5i iza ijak il 3eib min ahl il 3eib biba66el 3eib! amma ashuf heik attitude and behavior min arab young women who prolly wud have a lot going for them lawla inno ma 3andun a5laa2, ishi bigref!

ba3dein prostitutes can be working with u and u wudnt know, hon fi minnun always in abaya and covered up so noone wud know their face when they get out of someone's car, ba66al fi da3i to 'label' themselves and advertize what they do.. makes business more profitable AND secures the fool who will marry her one day without knowing what she did sometime in her youth!

You know, some public urinaries don't get as much action in 25 minutes. I can't blame them, It's the sign of times
But this is disgusting!

oh god!! what a shame, what's going on there ya jama3a??
where is Jordan heading? i mean really.. what's next? I've never heard such stories when i used to live there, maybe i was isolated or something, but still, if it was as obvious i would've noticed (but again maybe not).. but 3anjad, this is disgusting!! what a 25 minutes u spent in the car Q....

actually this is shocking, and we keep on trying denying it, but the truth it is there, the worst thing about it all, is that it gives a bad imege for the girls, u know, even though the girl was wearing desent clothes, holding her books, whether it is night or day time, they stop the car oofering her to get into the car..eshee beqref...i guess ino el sale7 beroo7 bi 3arwaa el tale7..!!

its 7 minutes going ... Eleven Minutes "processing" ... 7 minutes coming back ... according to Paolo Coelho :P

I will say it again, this is not new, as a matter of fact I think that east amman has more of this.. we used to live in hay el 6afayleh in the early 90's and we had some doubts about the house right behind us, so we made some calls and we were right it was a ma7'on 3la golet wlad 3ammna(bet da3ara).

And qwaider I think amman was more "liberal" in the old days-the 70's and the 80's.Anyway allah yostor 3la el walaya-I even heared about a street in shmesani for.... Ensa...

Bas nazletak 3la 3amman sheklha nar ya m3allem:P

Qwaider,, sara7aa?? mawadee3ak kolhom true! 3al waja3!!

from what i see in the street, Amman is getting worse and worse!
these stuff are increasing!!

allah yostor....

this is normal and it happens everywhere else around the globe. beddak live scene? go to mecca mall, sit in this weird havana cafe wella ba3rafsh esh usmo had elle in third floor, have argeeleh, sooner or later iraqi girls looking like ones in burtoqala will show up and sit on any khalayjeh table. laugh ;)

I have seen such scene before! It is sad, because those lady must have some good reason that pushed them to sell their bodies. I am sure they are taking much advantage of, and maybe being killed without anyone noticing it!

Maybe if those young men have girl friends to cater their needs, they wont follow those girls!

and maybe the government should legalise prostitution in order to give at least some human rights to those ladies!

This is just surfacing up of a profession that was always in Amman, east and west. In my generation (late 80s and 90s) the supply was there but it needed a good amount of coordination and a strong ethical immune system to protect you ( I am glad I had it). Now mobile phones and e-mail and other technologies are contributing to speeding up and effeciency. People changed also. Our new visitors since 2003 do happen to be masters in this business. My main concern is that the new look of the prostitutes will make decent ladies in Amman face a big problem to prove their honesty.

Here's my 2 cents: Recently in the american media (I know brian williams of NBC for example) has done some features on prostitution in syria.  There's no way to get the exact numbers but it's beleived that there are 50,000 prostitutes in syria and almost all of them are iraqi war refugees.  I guess this is what Batir Wardam was referring to.  Since Jordan has also experienced a huge influx of war refugees naturally I would think that a similar phenomena is occurring there too.

Moey, this is totally wrong. there is nothing normal about prostitution when you learn of its origins.

Most prostitutes start this profession either forced as children into prostitution, raped at a young age and gave up on the idea of marriage in a conservative society, extreme poverty, sexual abuse as a child.

So when you say it's normal, you are normalizing a great injustice against women. Most of these women will die of sexually transmitted diseases and will suffer periodic violence at the hands of clients.

So don't go around saying nonsensical things just because it suits your needs as a man.  There is nothing liberal or progressive about prostitution. prostitution is a horrific injustice against women.

why complain? this is freedom. true it's the cheap version. besides, it's good for tourism. I mean, why let the gulfys spend their money in syria and lebanon when we can have it here, screwing our women. everything else is for sale in jordan. this is one of the positive consequences to a ruined national economy: more hookers for the rich, local and foregin. This way when tired american and british soldiers need some rest and entertainment, our girls can tend to their needs.

God save us from those who are suppose to look after us.  

Hala, I don't like the idea of prostitutes running around in broad daylight anymore than you do, but I don't know about this statement:

""Most prostitutes start this profession either forced as children into prostitution, raped at a young age...This is a horrific injustice against women""

Some feminists would argue that a woman's body is her own to use as she pleases even if it comes to selling it as a commodity.

Its a profession although not a decent one. They give up their morality, in return for quick money. Sounds a lot like some so called "respectable" politicians and lawyers we know.

Do you want these women arrested ? Is that justice ? Which women is the injustice being comitted against ? I'd say, the client's wives perhaps, when hubby comes home and brings his STD as a present.

Whose side am I on ? Cold logic. Its going to happen regardless of legality, or morality. I find (The Observer's) statement interesting. Although we could use the extra tax income, Jordan is not ready for that, because legalizing it is condoning it in some sense.

Nevertheless, in a conservative society, adultery and prostitution are seen equally, so if we arrest the prostitutes, the next step is to have the religous police patrolling the streets arresting anyone for kissing his sweetheart. This isn't Saudi Arabia. Moderation would be ideal, but if we're going to one extreme or the other I'd prefer the one we're heading towards.

This is the reason you see some patriotic Americans defending someone's right to burn a flag or proclaim themselves "white supremacist". Think of the alternative...

"Do you want these women arrested ? Is that justice ? "

Lovely! suddenly all these men turn charitable and they only care for the welfare of the prostitutesa and they dig for quotes from infamous femists to support their points of views. May be I would like to see you lobby for equal inheritance, or equal powers of testemony, or ask the royal court to ban honor killing. but you only turn liberal when it suits you. but for other issues I have mentioned, you suddenly turn religious.

and why jail? who said anything about arrests? whatever happened to rehabilitation? whatever happens to treatment and counseling and job training and tolerance.

hani, "This is the reason you see some patriotic Americans defending someone's right to burn a flag "

wow, what an analogy.

but we don't defend someone's right to commit suicide, or to take drugs. we don't even defend something as simple as walking naked in the streets of San Diego. We don't defend many practices even though the harm is limited to the person in question and not to others. prostitution is all about deadly diseases, violence against women, and social injustice.

then of course you forget the most basic argument, that prostitution is not a human right protected by the constitution. prostitution is considered a crime for many reasons, above all the reasons I have mentioned.

when a girl becomes a prostitute it's not because she had a normal decent upbringing. very few do, but that's the extreme minority according to studies. the overwhelming majority of prostitute today are a product of the sex slave trade. girls smuggled with the promise of a decent job then beaten and threatened and sometimes killed to be forced into prostitution until they grow up not knowing any other skills. most die young of violence or disease.

amazing how some men seem to support a women's "freedom of choice" only to the extent they can screw them.

Falteh, I would lobby for most of those things, giving women half the inheritance of men is among the greatest injustices of Islamic law. I'm not sure why you started putting words in my mouth ? Its uncalled for. This isn't about men vs women. This is just about whether a particular social problem is better tolerated than fought. When you say  I'm "turning religous", I'm actually atheist, so there's no danger of that happening.

Rana, if you think I'm defending prostitutes you totally missed the point of the analogy. A patriot would never burn the flag, but they would risk going to jail protesting some idiot's right to burn the flag because if that idiot's right to do something like that is protected, then ordinary people are sure to be as well.



So I see no need to insult me by saying things like :

"" amazing how some men seem to support a women's "freedom of choice" only to the extent they can screw them""

This is the last resort of someone losing an argument, take everything someone said, ignore it all together, categorize them along some horrible group. I no more want to screw prostitutes than I would want to see them, but as I've clearly stated, I'm against the alternative some of us are suggesting.

Rehabilitation is a fancy word, that's also the term they use for jails by the way. More often than not, people get out of "rehabilitation" worse off than they got in.

Hani, I just read the comments over and I don't see where anyone was making suggestions as to what should be done to prostitutes as you've accused, with the exception of the observer.  The rest of us were stating observation and discussing causes for such a phenomenon, noone said anything baout getting arrested and doing time.

"Some feminists would argue that a woman's body is her own to use as she pleases even if it comes to selling it as a commodity."

Now that has to be the most ignorant, uneducated statement I've heard all week.  I'm not sure why you brought feminists into the subject-it's either because you yourself actually believe that or it's because you think if you use a label like that it makes the claim more legitimate than our individual claims.  How about you speak your own beliefs ant not try to quote 'feminists'.  

FYI, it's not the 'feminists' that advocate legalization of prostitution, it's the hugh hephners and the larry flints of the world!

Asma I wasn't accusing you of anything, the 2 persons above your post, started out by quoting something from my post, and then ranting about "why is it men....", making it a men vs women issue, which it isn't at all. Its a prostitutes vs decent society issue.

They then implied that I'm defending the prostitutes because I (according to Rana) wanted to quote "screw" them. I never so much as looked at a prostitute (that I know of), so I very much resent the implication. Its not very constructive or polite.

""Now that has to be the most ignorant, uneducated statement I've heard all week.  I'm not sure why you brought feminists into the subject-it's either because you yourself actually believe that or it's because you think if you use a label like that it makes the claim more legitimate than our individual claims.""

Neither actually. That is not my opinion, but I brought up feminism, because Hala was suggesting that prostitution is an injustice against the prostitutes themselves ! So the suggested solution for fixing the injustice is rounding them up and giving therapy and "rehabilitation" i.e. Jailtime.

I questioned her motives and wondered which women the injustice is being comitted against, since the prostitutes made that choice (an illegal one) and she wants to take it away from them to solve the injustice against them, nice logic !

Incidentally the slogan (My Body, My Choice) is very much mainstream old-school feminism. The idea being that a woman is free to choose who to have sex with and when before or after marriage. Including multiple partners etc... As far as a conservative society is concerned a woman adulteress (one who has sex outside of wedlock) is as guilty as a woman prostitute (one who accepts money for sex). So this isn't a far stretch.

As I see it, the only women injustice is being committed on due to prostitution are the client's wives. Do you disagree ?

There's a difference between making prostitution illegal and enforcing the law. I don't think it would be appropriate to legalize it, on the other hand I think enforcing the law would make things much worse.

If you don't see my point, look at it this way.

Boyfriend X is with Girlfriend Y in a hotel room. The let's call them Mutawe3een break into the hotel room, and arrest them both, eventhough Y isn't really a prostitute, she is merely an adulteress.

To my admittedly un-religous views, this makes a big difference, however from an enforcement point of view, how are you going to prove that the woman didn't take money when they catch them together in the same room and they can't produce a marriage certificate?

The path of least resistance is to simply ignore them provided they're not being indecent publicly. (eg. having sex in a car in plain view).

If you disagree, fair enough. I understand we don't all share the same morals.

Hani, do you not understand what it's like to be a prostitute or what she actually does????

"As I see it, the only women injustice is being committed on due to prostitution are the client's wives. Do you disagree ?"

Hell yes ya 7abibi! Why you think prostitutes are always drugged up, they can't face the their reality is too much to handle and that's their escape. I can confidently say their is NO prostitute that's happy with that their doing they feel they have no choice or they convincethemselves it's temporary.  It's a miserable life and I can't believe I'm even having an argument with someone that doesn't think having to be a prostitute is an injustice.  Go watch born into brothels or watch OR(my treasure); there's way more documentaries and reality-based movies on the subject these are the ones I can remember but they all pretty much are trying to relay the same message.

My Body My Choice was NEVER meant as an endorsement for prostitution, you're making a HUGE stretch!

Rehab

Rehab is not the same as jail, my cousin went to rehab as a 16 year old and his older brother went to jail for a similar offense, rehab is heaven on earth next to jail!

I can imagine how difficult it must be, it's just that the word injustice implies that society is to blame and I don't see how society can be responsible for the choice of an individual woman.

You claim most of them don't have a choice, that they're unhappy. Does this mean they're blameless ?

Sorry to do this again, but this another concept counter to feminism. Precieving women as helpless victims who are not responsible for their choices. The longer they are automatically percieved as victims, the longer it will take for men to take them seriously, or for them to believe in themselves.

They are adults, and should have the same rights, respect, and yes also responsibility and accountability as men.

Let's make a substitution, think of a young man who grew up in a tough neighbourhood with little or no education, and had little career options but to go into a life of crime. Would anyone think, ohhhh poor little bank robber, let's take him to a rehabilitation center and "reform" him. Nooooooo, its get his thieving little butt in jail right now, and throw away the key.

Don't get me wrong, in our part of the world, there's plenty of social injustice against women.

Hani..first sorry about thinking you were for legalizing prostitution, I see now that wasn't you, however.......

WTF???  
1)I don't see where I or anyone else asked you about "feminism" so stop trying to teach me what you think feminism is and stop trying to quote what you think feminist ideals are in arguing my points and just stick to using your own mind!

2)I never said they didn't have a choice I said "they FEEL they have no choice" which is very different because it suggests being helpless and weak which are qualities many of these women possess.  When you're strong and empowered you know you have choices

3)I don't think it's in your place to question someone's logic (which you've done) because you've shown yours is fucking screwed. I'm not addressing the rest of your post because you keep making unfounded inaccurate and misguided assumptions and conclusions about society, feminism, my views, and the views of others that responded to the post and it's like going in circles with you.  The only thing you know about anyone's views is what they've stated...........NOTHING ELSE

4)I can totally respect and debate those with different views than me provided they possess an expected level of knowledge to back up what they're saying, I can't do the same for ignorant people.  I don't know that you are an ignorant person but if I was going to judge you based on your 4 replies to this post then I would say you're ignorant!

Thank you for using a numbering system !

1. I'm not trying to teach feminism, just exchanging ideas. If you don't see where someone asked about femism, Please refer to Falteh's post, but I am arguing my own points, I choose to do this using some of the ideals of feminsim :)

2. Their feelings don't change things from my perspective. Anymore than they change things for the young bank robber.

3. The least I can do is question someone's logic, its part of debate, you in turn are questioning mine, is this not so ? At least I'm doing it politely. If you look at some of the posts above, I get accused of patronizing prostitutes, being unintelligent, uneducated, and God knows what else. Inaccurate unfounded assumptions like what ? Going in circles is natural in a debate, a straight line would be analogous to a speech. I agree, I'm only adressing what people say, not what they think.

4. Your definition of ignorant is anyone whose opinions differ from your own. That's a lot of people you just labeled as ignorant. Fair enough.

" it's just that the word injustice implies that society is to blame and I don't see how society can be responsible for the choice of an individual woman."

You are not alone in these views. I have heard many say same things you say. But I still have a problem with this argument.

So when you sexually abuse a child, or force a child into prostitution and that child grows up to be a troubled adult, or when you fail to provide for a very impoverished family, living on the margins of the society. you still consider prostitution resulting from all those cases (considered the root of prostitution in the world) to be the free choice of a woman? you are one callous sorry excuse of a human being. you know what I think, I think you are addicted to hookers so you prefer not to see them as victims. You are a shining example of Jordan's worthless neo-liberal elite.

The same neo-liberals just launched a TV campaign criminalizing begging in amman and calling on people NOT to give money to beggars, who are mostly women and children, because it "leads to a life of crime." SICK PEOPLE! and now the same people tell us prostitution is a FREE personal choice that should be respected, and that's why you see hookers all over amman with the tacit approval of the government.

CHARITY = BAD, it leads to a life of crime and annoys tourists.
PROSTITUTION = GOOD, it's good for tourism and its about "FREEDOM"

DOWN WITH NEO-LIBERALS!! STUPID, SICK, CRAZY, INHUMANE  PEOPLE!!! WORST OF ALL, THEY ARE RUNNING JORDAN!!

Qteishat said:""you know what I think, I think you are addicted to hookers so you prefer not to see them as victims. You are a shining example of Jordan's worthless neo-liberal elite.""

I've never hear that term. I do consider myself a liberal, but I'm nowhere near elite, although both words are quite positive to me. Again, I haven't so much as seen a hooker, let alone hire one. Moreover, If I did, I certainly wouldn't hide it. I'm liberal, remember :)

Regarding victims, you misinterpreted. I said women shouldn't automatically be seen as victims. This is not to say there are no women victims, but simply that we are too quick to instinctively categorize them as such, which means they end up being taken less seriously, and don't realize their own great potential.

I don't give money to beggars, I'd rather spend it on Friends, but I wouldn't condone arresting beggars unless they harassed people and businesses. This is in the same sense that I don't condone arresting hookers as long as they are discreet. What do I care what goes on behind closed doors.

Which "people" are telling you prostitution is a "free choice to be respected" ? There is nothing respectable about it by definition, and it is only a free choice in the sense that the women can choose to stop, and if you have your way go beg instead ?