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« المرأة ... و الرجل.. What not to do when selling... »

World Economic Forum and the Average Jo

  • By: Qwaider

  • On:Wednesday, May 23, 2007 3:05:12 AM
  • In:Thoughts
  • Viewed: (5203) times

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    Average Jo is a term I'm going to start using to represent the Average Jordanian from now on. It's interesting to see how a lot of the world leaders and agencies are gathering just for the sake of looking after other's best interest. If anything, that's the worst method of false advertising. What the WEF is about is simply, "How to better exploit more people". See, they do have "people" in their list of interests.

    Although people is in their goals. People's happiness and welfare is really a non-goal. A side effect, a by-product if it happened then good. If not, well, it's alright. As long as the pockets of the business owners is getting fat with the green

    I am so amused and puzzled at the same time when I see how 3rd world countries raving over the feet of these world cartels. From world trade organization, economic forum to more regional and local assemblies. While the west has banished them completely outside of their societies and lands. I can't remember the last time any face of "globalization" has been present in the west without having a very violent allergic reaction demonstrated by the amount of riots associated with the presence of these meetings.

    That's why they have found refuge in the 3rd world countries. Where human exploitation and oppression are common place and even welcome.

    Funny, how some liberal voices in the west seem to be more concerned about the 3rd world citizens than their own governments, officials and most certainly the private sector. What people seem to forget is that in most cases global businesses only worry about their existing investments present, and planned ones for the future.

    Probably the only part that is related to what people is finding ways to exploit people and maintaining these people in-line. Happy enough to continue to produce and not object. Just a new source of slave workers for the welfare of the global economies

    Everyone seems to forget how local small businesses will never be able to compete in a world economy. Yes, they can evolve. They can morph into something else. Maybe this .. maybe that ... but the end result is always going to be, they're at the brink of extinction and with no governmental protection, that end is ever looming closer and closer.

    There might be some good in what these economic assemblies bring. It might not even be known or even planned, but opening the door, will eventually open people's eyes to compare where they are, and where the rest of the world is. And maybe, just maybe ... this will be a compelling force for local economic reform and a footstep on combating corruption. Who knows, maybe the Average Jo is going to benefit at the end

    Other Memories Documented on May 23
    « المرأة ... و الرجل.. What not to do when selling... »

    Memories....

    Qwaider,
    Let me disagree with you on this one, with all the disadvantages that you mentioned there are some advantages that you can't ignore..I didn't attend the meeting so I don't know what happened behind the movenpek doors!!Since we didn't pay anything to host this meeting we didn't loose much..the king by his charisma was able to attract this gathering to be hosted in jordan each two years..Its name is economic but the whole idea I think is to bring people together where they can talk and dicuss "important" issues..And I bet you that you know that if military doesn't work, economy will, here I am talking not as a jordanian or an american or whatever, I am just trying to be logical, the West have goals and they look for means to achieve their goals, in iraq they decided to use force which proved to be a bad tool, so now why not focus on economy to "win" the hearts and minds of the average "mo" (muslim)..Now let me go back to my jordanian identity: Why not be a model for openness and free market in the region? Why not let them try to "win" the hearts and minds of average "jo", here I am being a nationalist..If I want to be "cause defender" then I would always refuse any kind of cooperation with the "enemies"..I deviated off the subject, but I am pro-globalization, pro-outsouricng, pro-capitalizm when it comes to jordan and the benefit of its people..
    Qwaider,
    I thought we were friends? what happened? I know you North Westerns hate the WTO, but come on. most of the protesters do not even now what the WTO's role is. the WTO enforces trade agreements, they do not write the terms of the agreements, the merely enforce it on the signatories. now if the US-Jordan FTA is harming Jordanian businesses, then it is Jordan and the US to blame, not the WTO.
    the situation in jordan has nothing to do with globalization. Jordan has more refugees and foreign workers than the whole Jordanian work force put together. Globalization is a great thing if it was understood by decisions makers in developing countries, including Jordan. it allows for the development of comparative advantage. every country has one, but unless they take care of that advantage and grow it, they will always be at the mercy of the ones that have done so already. Look at the recent sale of General Electric Plastic Division to the Saudi company SABIC. the US has the advantage of technology, and the Saudis have the advantage of petrochemicals. each one of them is trying to improve their hold on their respective advantage. In Jordan we sell Phosphate and Potash as a raw materials only to later import fertilizers. why? why do we forget about the value added industries that other nations take advantage of. Isreal exports $5 billions worth of minerals and other salts and cosmetics from the Dead Sea, while Jordan exports less that $5 millions. why do we import butter from Denemark, when sometimes during the summer some Jordanian farms throw the milk away because of low  prices. why do we let tomatoes rot during the summer when a whole truck sells for 50 dinars when ketchup and pizza sauces are imported why do we import Olive oil from Tunisia and Spain, when we have the best Olive oil and the best farm lands to grow olive trees? these are just a few examples from the top of my head, a lot more exist if I were to write a paper about the topic. Thank god it was my last final today, so I am not really in the mood : )

    Mohannad:
    after that Bani Hasan joke I did not like you, we are friends now : )
    • #3
    • Isam
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 5/23/2007 8:44:06 AM
    Q man ... the "western" world refuses Globalization movements bcuz they dont want anything to do with us !!! ya3ne if u had a million dollars and a 6 hours job you wouldnt partner with someone who has 1 dollar and a 14 hours job right ???? but the 1 dollar guy should be more than glad with any partnership ...

    the public mass there is afraid that they will lose their jobs for far east asians ... and compromise their Public health array with africans ... but the third world has nothing to lose ...
    Mohannad,
    It would be naive to think that these super powers are interested in anything other than their continued dominance. Jordan is not excluded from their vicious agenda. Sooner or later shops are going to start closing their doors because they can't compete with international brands, that's one
    Second, there's no way in hell all that investment is going to land on the "average Jo's" plate. Call me skeptic, crazy whatever you want. The average Jordanian will NEVER reap the benefits. Maybe as a byproduct as I said
    They're really not trying to win the heart and minds, in fact, they couldn't care less as long as the money trail ends up in their pockets

    Explain one thing for me, If we're so keen on these interesting world bodies, and following their foot steps. How come the tax on goods is 16%? Higher than most of the US, and Europe?

    Globorama,
    Yes, of course, I'm friends with everyone...
    NW kicked WTO out of Seattle big time.. They would never dare come back here...
    Actually, most protesters Knew what WTO is about, most of the advocates for it don't really know how evil WTO is and how much exploitation is behind it. The protesters happened to be the top echelon in the educated United states. They came from all over the US, from Berkly, Purdue, Stanford you name it. These were not some "rioters" these were very well educated crowds. probably the only people that know what they're talking about and decided to rage against the machine. For US! The STUPID 3rd world people who don't even know what's good for us and what's bad even if it hit us in the face!

    Lets not blame everything on Refugees in Jordan, for all I know the whole Jordanian economy is built on grant after grant of foreign currency after we literally "cut off our arm and started begging for it" These refugees have be a tremendous income to Jordan let alone slave workers for the most part.
    But lets not talk about Jordan. Lets talk about somewhere else, since I will hit a nerve talking about Jordan. Lets talk about SriLanka, Bangladesh .. One of the 3rd world country who is REALLY poor

    Globalization is the root of all the evils you mentioned. You know why? simply because EVEN if you managed to get your tomatoes in a Ketchup, Hein's is going to sell their top-shelf brand ketchup for 50% of your cost. They would burn the market under your feet. And with trade treaties. Your local economy is left there suffocating under the weight of the industry giants
    Why aren't we producing fertilizers? Good question! You should look skyward and ask it.. WTO is NOT going to help you there.

    As for why is Israel more successful... one words, corruption. We are so penetrated by corruption to the point that even good ideas are buried. We don't have the actual text of these treaties. But it boggles my mind to see, Potash and Phosphate companies (each as large as the Saudi Aramco) both incapable of producing such income or improving the Jordanian conditions.

    Globalization is bad, and If I knew who your professor who told you otherwise, I would strip him from his PhD that stupid hypocrite
    (and yes, we're still friends, trust me)

    Isam
    No my friend. The western liberals are as prosecuted as our Opposition. It's not true that they don't want anything to do with us. To the contrary, these are the same voices that stood against war.
    It appears to me that you might have misunderstood how these people work. The WTO folks don't want to improve your life, they want to EXPLOIT it .. they want to suck you dry! They want to push the industries outside of civilized countries because of all it's harmful effects especially after environmental watchdogs and people have gathered enough momentum to REALLY cause them damage. They're not doing this for the blackness of our eyes "swad 3yoonna" they're doing this to suck us dry... and trust me ... they will
    Q,
    The being Tax 16% goes to the fact that jordan at least as they claim is poor in resources, if we want to look at the jordanian case we can conclude that we survived ALOT, the refugees keep coming, we can argue that they created what is now know to be jrodan but yet when you have dramatical increases in population you have no choice..The iraqi refugees caused at least 15% increase in population in 2 years, can you imagine the US being flodded by 60 million mexicans in two years! The 16% is just part of what capitalizm is, here in the US you almost pay 30-40% of your income in taxes, but the nice thing is that you got your moneys worth in services unlike jordan wether that is due to corruption or whatever, so blaming globalization for the taxes is not the way to go Q;) And by the way in capitalizm consumers also can control what happens to them but it is human nature of "6annesh" that keeps puching things up, lets say that tomatos went up in jordan, why can't all consumers boycott tomatos?Anyhow to make the long short I think each one of us built his view upon what he read or learned and there are good arguments on both sides!!Next fall I will be teaching "world is flat" enshalla:)
    Globalization is one of my favorite topics. I wish I can meet with guys, may be one day we'll have a Qwaider planet meet up. but, in the meanwhile, I too suggest "The World is Flat." let me warn you, it is written by a jew, but he has many friends IN Jordan.

    I said Jew because many Arabs discredit a person based on his/her religion.
    I wouldn't discredit anyone based on their Religion. That's the epitome of stupidity. Naom Chomsky is a Jew, Albert Einstein is a Jew .. does this discredit their words!? Not by a far chance!

    Now, Regarding sales taxes in Jordan, if you notice it was only imposed after Jordan decided to join the rest of the civilized world in WTO, probably following an economic reform "mandate" by our nice .. creditors

    As for the refugee influx, we have to remember that the Iraqi's that have fled through Jordan were mostly the Rich. I know a few who even received the Jordanian citizenship.

    At any rate, I hope you guys will look deeper into the matter to realize how much harm it is causing and will cause for the less fortunate countries. The WTO WILL force foreign economic policies, but it doesn't stop there ... It WILL interfere with internal and external affairs ...
    Just think, how can we compete with the western capitalists with their huge resources? How can we compete with the cheap labor of India, china and the whole far east!?
    we CAN compete. through optimizing our comparative advantage. not every country in the world has a Dead Sea. not every country in the world has potash and Phosphate. we have so many other potential sources of economic benefits, but we lack an honest government, we lack young Jordanians with entrepreneurial spirit, and we lack constant cooperation with our Arab "brothers." Hong Kong has no natural resources what so ever. Singapore is a tiny country but considered the trading hub of Asia. Botswana, a land locked country in southern Africa, has seen high economic growth for the last 30 years.  now, I have been studying topics of International Trade for aaaaaa long time. so, having a careful, close look at globalization through all aspects helps a lot. I truly believe that the problem is with our beloved Jordan, not Globalization.
    Yes Globorama, not every country have such resources but but not all have the same amount of corruption.

    I do admit that we have a local problem. But Globalization in general is an evil thing. I guess I just conflict with it at the ideological level ..
    Qwaider,

    Average Jo benefits’ from servicing those types of conferences, financial institutions make millions even billions of dollars in profits from servicing the consumer and the corporate loans, Jordanians make thousands of dollars from servicing the attendees. Just imagine the number of people that got involved in putting together such an event, each one of them benefited in one way or another. The Taxi driver, the waiter, the crowd manager, the waiter, the janitor, the food caterer, and so on and so forth. So in a way there was an immediate benefit for the people who serviced the conference and then there will be a long term benefits later on coming from the projects that were proposed such as the train between Amman and Zarqa.
    And we don't have the capacity to propose and build such a train on our own?
    Chances are, no taxi drivers were involved in this event. And no one other than the foreign investment in the hotels that have directly benefited.
    We provided them with cheap labor and a secure location. Which we should have made them pay through the nose for. But I doubt that was the case.
    Yes, we want to attract investments... true, but without surrendering everything in return

    Don't ever think that big corporations care about anything other than their own best interest! and making money for their shareholders! How, what how does this effect local economies .. is all beside the point
    I guess we agree on disagreeing.
    Q,
    The iraqi refugees that you are talking about is only less than 10%, have you been to zarqa or east amman lately?have you been to wast el balad? I am not blaming them, because they are refugees who will be killed elsewhere, but you can't ignore the fact that jordan has taken so many hits since it was created, how many people inhabited "east jordan" before 1948? I bet you they were less than half a mil, but now we are more than 6 million!Add corruption to that, add instability in the middle east, wars on the east and west borders and maybe north soon!!Then we are damn lucky that we are still a country!

    hey zargawi;) the guy is a genius, so why not look at we has to offer:)
    Without loans, without credit, without financing, without refinancing, there is no way in the world you are going to establish equity. When you don't have equity then you don't have anything. Why don't you just stick to the basics, to the micro loans that are being given to the people in ruler areas, these loans are as little as JD 1000. Time and again they already had proven their effectiveness in starting micro enterprises. I’m sure that you heard about the loans that lifted the people in Bangladesh and caused that Banker to win the Nobel Prize from his micro financing schemes. This is exactly what we need in Jordan Micro financing for small projects, if we stick to that sort of financing, soon enough we will see a huge drop in the unemployment and poverty levels especially in the ruler areas of the country. This is what people like her majesty queen Rania is working on, the results are already yielding very positive outcome.
    You're mixing few things here.
    WTO cares more about the interest on these loans and not really the people taking them
    Second, why can't the financing be local? Why do we have to hemorrhage interest externally?
    I don't think we can't do all of this locally. We can certainly finance it, AND build it.
    As for micro-loans. True, I would love to see local Jordanian venture capitalists spear heading similar efforts
    • #16
    • Didi
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 5/24/2007 8:38:44 AM
    ينبوع و في الحواديت أنا سمعت عنه

    إنه عجيب .. و ف وسط لهاليب لكنه

    شقيت كما الفرسان طريقي .. لقيت

    حتي الخنازير و الكلاب شربوا منه

    عجبي !!!!
    We are talking about the average JO and what [is] in it for him or for her. Right! If so then I don't know where is the mix up that you are referring to -[it]- above. My argument basically focuses on the servicing part of the conference and not the content of what was discussed or the primary purpose of the conference, I already left that part for others to deal with it, I'm here to discuss the advantages and the disadvantages of the conference for the average JO.I care less whether the IMF or the WTO or the Paul Wolfowitz is accused of giving salary increase to his girl friend, that too is none of my concern. If the question is : Do average Jordanian citizens benefit from having conferences such as the one recently concluded at the dead sea, the answer is a definitive yes and I'm willing, ready, and able to argue it to the bitter end.
    Hold your horses, no one wants to argue that aspect till the bitter end. But allow me to throw couple of stones in the well
    A) You're talking about the tourism industry and therefore more than 80% of the average Jo's (if I'm very conservative in my estimate) are excluded from this
    B) If you weigh in the price we have to pay to keep all those delegates and the whole forum safe and secure. You will realize that whatever benefit we mad in the tourism, was payed folds in these expenses
    Q,
    We "exist" because of the funds provided to us by "capitalist" countries or as we arabs like to call them "conspirators" So actually we didn't pay anything to host the WEF, we lost nothing, and I consider loosing nothing a "gain" :)
    Shame on you Mohanned... We exist inspite of them, not because of them. Or as we say in Arabic .. Fasharo!
    Everything has a price tag these days including the usage of AlHusseini mosque latrine in downtown Amman, they charge you 60 fills to urinate, and I’m not sure what they charge for defecation.
    As you said, just another way to exploit the poor people of the third world countries. It's human nature
    You too can have your Memories Documented

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