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« Seriously... Confused!This must change »

Will someone tell this moron to shut up?

  • By: Qwaider

  • On:Wednesday, May 09, 2007 12:31:31 AM
  • In:Thoughts
  • Viewed: (11606) times

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    Rated 4.5/5 stars (163 votes cast)

    As a Muslim, I feel so humiliated and insulted but almost everything that this stupid Islamic delusions. I have no doubt that there are so many miracles in the Quran, and so much miracles that have been proved over time to be absolutely as they were mentioned. But some are just pure coincidental

    najjar

    I feel so humiliated when someone comes to me with a new story about yet-another-Zaghool "assumption" most recently about how the human heart is capable of retaining memory and possibly affecting feelings, emotions and behavior

    There is nothing more ridiculous than this stupidity. And quoting Zaghlool as the supreme authority on Science and Islam is just pure nonsense!

    Many years ago, people discovered that there are these little nerve clusters that are very close to the heart and people have realized that these provide a limited autonomy to the heart as a muscle. They've also been know to malfunction at times AND that was reason why Pacemakers were invented to begin with.

    Najjar apparently extrapolated and presented what he cited as ultimate truth from the Quran about the workings of the heart. Such an absurd interpretation. Another one of those insulting explanations similar to the ones about "The hand of god above their hands" and now when the Quran says in their hearts then it HAS TO MEAN in their physical heart!

    I have no idea how people like that think. And I'm not sure what they're trying to accomplish. In this day and age, stroking our religious egos is not really helping. Because all it takes is one real research and those ideas come toppling on top of their heads. With them some people's beliefs

    I'm seriously sick of reading and hearing about this stuff. We really need to ALL take a firm position against such religious heresy. If blaspheme has a definition, it must include "twisting realities to polish the religion"

    The greatest harm being done to religion is surrendering to this type of religious hallucinations no matter how tempting this might be!

    Other Memories Documented on May 09
    « Seriously... Confused!This must change »

    Memories....

    I think you have a point. I was actually having a conversation with one of my friends today at lunch about religions and science, especially about how far the belief in creationism goes and how some prefer to view it as an idea mutually exclusive of evolution.

    Do you have a link to the story that you refer to as the "most recent" example? I haven't read anything about it apparently.
    Now that goes to the point of who gives them the authority to talk and issue fatwas and based on what background, what IQ and what degree of open mindness!!If you want to measure the IQ of 99% of our "shiekhs" I am sure that they will not be smarter than a fifth grader:)
    Hamzeh, the story was on TV on MBC news today 5/8/2007

    Some lunatic claimed that the neural tissues in the heart had the capacity to have emotions. And Zaghlool jumped and said that it's mentioned in the Quran!

    Just Remember Mohanned during undergrad .. who got to study Shariah? The guy who got 50% in Tawjihi .. and now he is telling us how to live our life!


    By the way, Zaghlool's has a degree in Geology and NOT medicine, biology or anything remotely related to cardiology
    I double checked one of the preposterous claims he made today. And guess what, he said that heart is inside the Peritoneum and that these neural cells are in the side of the peritoneal membrane. Which is anatomically incorrect!

    Someone really need to tell these people to stop!
    Enough said, very well put out..
    Q-I'm totally with you on this one, the Qur'an is a book of faith, guidance. and not a book of science ! it was not meant to be so and hence it does not mean the Qura'an is wrong if it does not contain quantum physics.

    But a small remark, there are different types of inelegance, and our beloved Tawjihi system is no scale for intelligence and talent, so judging the " shiekh" of stupidity is unjust, besides we are talking about " 3olama2" the shari3a and some of these guys are pretty bright.

    Besides we should be above demeaning people, we can talk as much as we like about particular opinions but not their person : )
    Tamara,
    When someone insults my religion ... and especially after being reprimanded repeatedly by almost EVERYONE yet he still insists on these absurdities ... he deserves it ... and way worse
    hehe not fair i was writting about it .....
    I love the fact that he uses the scientific as a base to start from.

    oh well the sad truth is as a population we are gullable !
    I disagree Q, no matter what we have our standards, you don't insult a person you can insult his ideas or theories not the person! that is not based on what a particular person deserves but rather what I am
    he's still a moron. who's doing more harm than good. he's doing it all for fame. islam is the last thing he's serving.
    Lets agree that we disagree on this one : ) I use the hadeeth that says : .....خذو العفو

    which means take what the people show, he says he is doing it for Islam, I accept that from him, he is going about it the wrong way, but I don't go into "nawaya" this is not a call for being gullible, but not to be judgmental .
    • #12
    • baldy
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 5/9/2007 11:22:31 AM
    u have apoint , all this crazy "shioo5" who just keeps sayin none-sense,god! they have 2 stop treat us like chldren that believs everything.i think they just have 2 stop that "mahzele".
    • #13
    • OmAr
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 5/9/2007 1:15:50 PM
    I truly think that what this guy's trying to do is very simple; he realizes that some stuff in the Quran or the Hadith suggest, by today's measures, that they're not coming from the one who created the universe, hence his role in life: to keep proving, whether ridiculously as he may sound often, that the words of the Quran and the Hadith are magic words that carry every little thing that is discovered or yet to be, all what you have to do is to open your eyes and grasp the knowledge.

    To back my words, here's why I think the guy came up with this ridiculous theory of the heart and feelings:

    "أَفَلَمْ يَسِيرُوا فِي الأَرْضِ فَتَكُونَ لَهُمْ قُلُوبٌ يَعْقِلُونَ بِهَا أَوْ آذَانٌ يَسْمَعُونَ بِهَا فَإِنَّهَا لا تَعْمَى الأَبْصَارُ وَلَكِنْ تَعْمَى الْقُلُوبُ الَّتِي فِي الصُّدُورِ "
    الحج -46

    Now, when you're a "scientist" imam living in the twenty first century and read such a sentence, you have three options, either to give up your faith, to ignore it, or try to come up with some weird theory to justify it. Zaghlool simply chose the third option.
    omar, give up, ignore or come up with a wierd explanation? do u mean by ignoring as having faith that we are not knowledgable enough to decide?... i sure hope that. that is not the only verse in the quran that has reference to the heart directly, but whether god means physical hearts or not, neither you nor i knows for sure

    besara7a i dont know exactly what this guy said (i just watch CSI!), wish i had a link or something, but no matter what, if his intentions are good, and he was wrong, he got one credit, if he is right, he got two...

    finally: "وَمَا مِن دَآبَّةٍ فِي الأَرْضِ وَلاَ طَائِرٍ يَطِيرُ بِجَنَاحَيْهِ إِلاَّ أُمَمٌ أَمْثَالُكُم مَّا فَرَّطْنَا فِي الكِتَابِ مِن شَيْءٍ ثُمَّ إِلَى رَبِّهِمْ يُحْشَرُونَ " so can we at least try to grasp something out of it?  
    You are absolutly right qwaider, sharia and school teachers represent the lowest IQ in jordan and yet they play the most important role in our future, it is all about the injustice in our education system makromeh and emteyazat, it is just sad but who dares to touch this system, no one, not even the top!!Here is a topic for you:D
    Tamara
    Ok, I agree. I don't want to be too harsh on the man. But someone really needs to help him see the harm he's doing

    Baldy
    Yep, that's it. They really need to stop

    OmAr
    Yes, I think I agree with you. But a 5 grader would understand that this is meant metaphorically!
    I would go with option 4, Why don't people accept "Blind hearts" and consider "in the chest" as not part of the metaphor? Does hearts have Eyes?!

    Mariam
    He gets NO credit fo harmin the image of Islam like that. More like a curse

    Mohannad
    If you cross low IQ with fanatics ... you get a volatile concoction.... I think all the problems we're in right now is due to that

    Personally, I think Shariah should ONLY be open as a Post Doctoral field of study. After someone achieves a PhD, then they are allowed to go into Shariah ... Not the other way around
    u may disagree with him in some of his ideas and i can't argue with that but u just can't call such a great man a moron !!
    it's all interpretations it might be right or wrong at the end we try to understand and learn ...
    no body is perfect
    I fail to see what's great about him! He draws the WRONG conclusions and makes the position of Islam so weak and allows everyone to ridicule us.
    It's not About perfection, and it's NOT about him making a mistake. It's about a trend that he's been following. Time after time after time. In almost ALL his work!

    He's making amazingly obvious and clear mistakes. And so much more harm than good.
    • #19
    • Fido
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 5/10/2007 9:19:06 AM
    Zaglool Al Najjar is a Great Islamic thinker and sientest.. He deserves to be more respected.. He dedicated his long life to prove many sientific miracles from al quran and he succeeded.
    if u  have to disagree with him that doesnt give any one the right to curse him that way in a public that way..!
    u know, i read in tafseer el jalalien (which is pretty old): one verse was explained as inno the earth is round... in a footnote, he explains furthr why he thinks the earth is round (hundreds of yeeeears ago!) and another footnote states that mofasser flanee replies inno the earth is flat and the conclusion is WRONG! guess who turned out to be wrong?
    im just asking u to be more tolerant and open minded.
    What Najjar is doing harms Islam more than anything. He was proven wrong not once, not twice, but on every thing he says. For god's sake, I'm NOT against Islam. I'm against people who ruin it and ridicule our minds, and more importantly, Islam itself
    Qwaider, you have to realize that the audience he is targeting is not you or any other smart person, so take it easy and don't even bother to explain yourself because it is obvious and who doesn't see it is just BLIND if not stupid!
    Qwaider,

    I know you mean well but this is not the way...  Cut the guy some slack... Everyone makes a mistake every now and then... Sometimes Quranic verses are distorted to give a certain scientific meaning... at other times I find the evidence overwhelming... Anyway, this guy had his good moments and bad ones... calling a man a moron is not the way to resolve this issue...

    Instead of cursing him, you can talk to him... give him an advice or something... his official website is http://www.elnaggarzr.com/
    I've been there, and seen how "criticism" is met with ridicule and branding people with blaspheme
    We ALL need to be VERY careful when we talk about Quran and Scientific advances. And I fear that is not the case with him. Sorry, but I don't trust him, nor do I believe ANYTHING he says. Because he sort of collaberates everything with circumstantial evidence. Very weak and would ruin way more than it fixes

    Who needs to stop him? If I was Shaikh al Azhar, I would tell him to stop.

    With what he's doing he opened the doors wide open to the other evil doers who keep on "faking" scientific evidence after getting hints from Quran. It's just sad and insulting to me as a Muslim. Who do I blame? Najjar, and his likes!
    • #26
    • OmAr
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 5/11/2007 10:03:34 AM
    "But a 5 grader would understand that this is meant metaphorically!"

    If you're talking about the "in the chest" part then I guess you're also only talking about retarded 5 graders, because not in a million years the "hearts in the chests" would suggest anything other than literally "the hearts in the chests"!
    here's what al Tabari says in his interpretation of Quran, of course by default, Al Tabari must be a scientist in the Arabic language and its metaphores:
    وَقَوْله : { فَإِنَّهَا لَا تَعْمَى الْأَبْصَار } يَقُول : فَإِنَّهَا لَا تَعْمَى أَبْصَارهمْ أَنْ يُبْصِرُوا بِهَا الْأَشْخَاص وَيَرَوْهَا , بَلْ يُبْصِرُونَ ذَلِكَ بِأَبْصَارِهِمْ ; وَلَكِنْ تَعْمَى قُلُوبهمْ الَّتِي فِي صُدُورهمْ عَنْ أَنْصَار الْحَقّ وَمَعْرِفَته . وَالْهَاء فِي قَوْله : { فَإِنَّهَا لَا تَعْمَى } هَاء عِمَاد , كَقَوْلِ الْقَائِل : إِنَّهُ عَبْد اللَّه قَائِم . وَقَدْ ذُكِرَ أَنَّ ذَلِكَ فِي قِرَاءَة عَبْد اللَّه : " فَإِنَّهُ لَا تَعْمَى الْأَبْصَار " . وَقِيلَ : { وَلَكِنْ تَعْمَى الْقُلُوب الَّتِي فِي الصُّدُور } وَالْقُلُوب لَا تَكُون إِلَّا فِي الصُّدُور , تَوْكِيدًا لِلْكَلَامِ , كَمَا قِيلَ : { يَقُولُونَ بِأَفْوَاهِهِمْ مَا لَيْسَ فِي قُلُوبهمْ } . 3 167



     

    But what can I say? give me a sentence like "the sky's blue", and with little work I can come with an interpretation to it which proves that you actually meant that the sky's red.
    • #27
    • Bilali
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 5/11/2007 10:50:12 AM
    This is the dilemma of the educated sunni arab. I for one harbour feelings of utter revulsion at the horrifically backward Sunni religious institutions. But when I look at the alternatives, the rotten traitorous nationalist and leftists Arab intelligentsias and all their prostitution to the US and Israel, in return for keeping their power and money, I and many others are left with no option but to remain neutral to the fundamentalist arab sunni establishment for they are the only ones who seem to be willing to make great sacrifices for Arab independence in Iraq and Palestine and Somal. And they are the ones who seem less prone to corruption and more predisposed to grand acts of charity. the arab left and nationalists have today volunteered to work as petty soldiers in the neo-conservative machine and have been willingly absorbed into the repressive regime institutions producing more horrific corruption and repression in the name of protecting stability and modernity (read: neo-liberalism).
    OmAr
    There are two different things in the science of Quran, Tafseer and Ta2weel (تقسير و تأويل)
    Tafseer, is the meaning of verses, and these don't change with time ever. Like for example establishing prayers as Fard (or mandatory)
    However, Ta2weel (interpretation) is literally open for interpretations. It takes into account so many things like the conditions relating to the verse. And this can be reinterpreted over and over and over .. as people become more aware

    Arabs in poetry (of the time of the Quran and even today) have been known to use metaphors. In fact, there are 4 kinds of metaphors in the Arabic language, each one with greater level of metaphorical resemblance between the two objects of a metaphor.
    I don't want to go into the particularities of that verse, but I personally would understand it as Chest as in the internal of their existence. Not relating it literal chests. It's a very strong "Kinayeh"

    In the English language there is no equivalent. You picked two terms (Sky) and (Blue) but if you took two values instead like (love) and (vision) you would see the metaphor. "Love is blind" does this mean that love has eyes? Does this mean that blind people are always in Love? Does this mean that a person who can see can't love? This is where you get interpretations
    Heart in Arabic, has a million meanings. Including (insight)
    Chest also has a million meanings,  including (conscious)
    Read the verse again, and switch heart with Insight and chest with conscious.. .and you will see my point


    Bilal,
    I'm surprised to hear how you associated Leftist with neo-conservativs... I see those as two competing forces if anything.
    The battle for the middle is ever growing, and the gap is widening so deeply.
    But I guess talking about the political aspect of it is a little bit too big to just include in a comment
    • #29
    • Wong
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 5/11/2007 7:21:20 PM
    Arab leftists are no longer my friend. today, they have been hired by the regimes to fill media and intelligence posts. with the fall of the USSR, Arab lefits and x-communists have been neutered and need a new sugardady. and considering the Arab left has a deep rooted disdain for organized religion they have become useful repression tools in the fight against political Islam. So with the Islamists being the only resistance force and the only anti-corruption force,  the leftists basically are weakening the Arabs last card at holding Anglozionism at bay. in that sense, the leftists are serving the despots and neo-conservatives. Even leftists columnists write columns that rival traditional pro-government writers in their advocate for repression and in attacking the "street." Just follow Jameel Nimri and Ayman Safadi and Saleh Qallab's writings: The government is smart and wisw; the people are idiots; the resistance is terror;  US is a force for good in the region; etc. Today, only the Islamists, Sunni or Shiia, are fighting imperialism in the Arab world and beyond. Anyone who weakens them is only serving the Anglozionists and the despots. Do you see leftists or nationalists militias fighting the invasion in palestine? lebanon? Iraqi? Somal?
    I thought the leftist fought against imperialism and in that they have aligned with the Islamists on so many fronts
    We are not talking about mercenaries who will end up in bed with whoever pays more. We're talking about people with true ideals and who stick to them
    Yes, they have been kind of neutered by the fall of the USSR, but ...

    We really need to distinguish between leftists and anti-religious .. one is political and the other is religious, two different planes of existence if you ask me

    Leftists and nationalists ARE fighting in Palestine, and still do...

    Anyway, many have sort of 'Wise' up and moved from extreme left, to short dishdasheh, long beird and Miswak!
    • #31
    • susu
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 5/11/2007 8:11:12 PM
    look at Lebanon, the nationalists and the leftists are aligned with Anglozionism while the Islamists are the only party fighting it and taking the blows. In Somalia, the Islamic Courts are fighting the Ethiopian invasion, while the "nationalists" are inviting them and supporting them. in Palestine, the only effective resistance is islamic, while the nationalists Fatah are collaborating with the Zionists and the leftists are sitting idly by waiting for israel to take care of the Islamic resistance. Iraq speaks for itself with Sader and the Sunni islamists, with Iran's help, waging a fierce liberation struggle that brought the anglozionists to their knees. Where are the nationalists? leftists? I never saw a a video with the Bathists or Socialists claiming responsibility for anything. Iran the islamist is not Arab, but they are fiercely anti-imperialists and have supported the only decisive military defeat against the Israelis in the region. One more time: where are the leftist and nationalist militias? busy cashing their government salaries. And, of course, forget the Arab monarchies. well I am at a loss of words to describe them.  The only odd exception is the Syrian Bathists, also not so pretty when it comes to their brutal ways, but they are about the only nationalist antizionist in the region, but once they get their Golan, they will probably exceed Mubarak's gang in their pragmatism. So that leaves the islamists as the one and only defenders of arab soil and against the runaway corruption that breeds massive poverty  and social and political inequity. if I have to give up the alcohol and the marijwana and bend over 5 times a day in return for liberated arab land and end of corruption, then be it.
    Susu, Actually that's not true about Lebanon. Many of the local parties have allied with the Islamic Shiite move. Some are even communists.
    The rules of the game have changed, and yesterday's enemies are today's intimate best friends. How is this happening ... needs additional and deeper study of the new dynamics...

    What remains to be seen is ... financial support of the giants in the Arab world to these efforts. Similar to what the Jewish lobby does. It doesn't matter what your political views are as long as you pay your dues to the lobby!

    One thing is certain, we're light-years away from realizing true democracy, coexistence and honoring the freedoms
    • #33
    • xxx
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 5/12/2007 1:09:34 AM
    but who is doing the fighting and who is doing the leeching? remember jamblat's revolutionary hotair. for years we believed the sob, until he showed his true colors the moment the Syrians were forced out. i won't bet a penny on arab communists. they too flip flip at the drop of a penny.
    Look-up Jumblat under "mercenary" in the dictionary or read this
    • #35
    • xxx
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 5/12/2007 1:31:40 AM
    and by the way, dont count on an arab lobby. they have been trying to do it for over 30 years now and it's going from bad to worse. today, they are just a social club like ADC. or worse, "ethnic relations" offices for the republican or democratic party with misleading names like AAI or NAAA.

    Like in the Arab world, the future is with muslim americana, like CAIR.

    so as you see my friend, in the arab world or in the US, the nationalists have screwed up beyond redemption. in the US, most of those who filled the ranks of groups like ADC and AAI were the scum who run the arab regimes or us party activts more interested in jobs in the american political machine than in serving arab causes.

    from sons and daughters of royalties to relatives of despots to arab tycoons, the sort who make headlines with their labor exploitations. Just a rotten group of people. Why do you thing CAIR thrived in record time? the corruption here was mirrored there. the nepotism, cronyism, collaboration, you name it. it was the hallmark of groups like ADC and AAI. this is not a pessimistic picture, this is how things are today in the US.
    Completely agree, that's why I made a decision to boycott all these bodies... they're just focused on their own not the issues of Arabs or Arab nations
    • #37
    • rare
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 5/13/2007 11:23:59 AM
    We can be with or against an opinion, or a thought!
    But that should be with whole respect for the other point of view & for the person himself, specially if that person has PhD & lots of studies/researches on his field.
    Zaghloul is well known in USA & by non arab ppl, cos he has attracted & satisfied them with realistic and logical approved facts!

    You may be against Zaghloul’s thoughts, but that doesn’t give you the right to insult the man himself. You can write freely about your feelings toward him, but with full respect to others, in order to deliver your message
    rare, I'm sick of repeating myself. The guy is crazy, he  has done more harm than good. And that's why I'm against all this crap!
    He's more WRONG than right on almost EVERYTHING he says! So stop defending him as he doesn't bring you the ultimate truth of facts. He brings speculations and circumstantial thoughts and ruins our Quran and religion with it

    For someone like that, I have NO RESPECT he Should be made to stop!
    • #39
    • kid nab
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 5/14/2007 2:27:18 AM
    Qwiader, this is a major turnabout from an earlier position where you called for respecting each other's opinions even if we disagree. so basically now you are saying every person must decide for himself where the line of tolerance begins and where it ends and its time to take the gloves off. i guess bottom line, when all the "sweet" talk about respecting this or that is done, it's all relative and subjective.
    Kid,
    There are things that are open for opinions, that don't affect other people (like, personal take on drinking coffee)for example. But what Najjar does goes beyond that. It goes into the "Islamic view on these matters" therefore it affects ME, it humiliates ME, or insults ME in front of others...
    Which means, it's not longer PERSONAL. I didn't ask him to represent me, but that's exactly what he's doing
    • #41
    • بسم الله
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 5/15/2008 3:24:37 AM
    (انها لا تعمى الابصار ولكن تعمى القلوب التى فى الصدور)

    حسبى الله ونعم الوكيل

    yeah sure we should take a firm situation,BUT against those who insult islam & our prophet ,not against someone who is trying his best to discover the nonstop miracles of quran ....& GUESS WHAT quran is not just a book for religon it's a book for life u'll find biology physics & even chemistery , if u don't believe that , u should doubt ur faith

    اللهم صلى وسلم وبارك على سيدنا وملانا محمد وعلى اله واصحابه اجمعين
    I will not doubt my faith because someone was stupid enough to be fooled by the likes of Zaghlool Alnajjar who is just playing on the emotional side of things and making us all look bad! I appreciate science. Even Allah appreciates scientists. The funny thing, all the Islamic scientists didn't even remotely claim what Zaghlool does and they didn't shame or bring shame on Islam by their acts.

    Lets leave the Quran out of this arena. Lets preserve the dignity of Islam instead of allowing everyone to just say what ever they want and then, say.. see, god said that in the Quran!

    The hearts don't UNDERSTAND anything! They are muscles, and have no thought capabilities! Lets stop making the whole universe laugh at our stupidity!
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