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« الرد على وفاء سلطانWill they ever quit!? »

Arabic women rage

  • By: Qwaider

  • On:Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:40:26 AM
  • In:Thoughts
  • Viewed: (5179) times

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    Rated 4.4/5 stars (112 votes cast)

    Just about every other Arabic woman with a blog, has her blog provocatively, defiantly called some form of rage, anger, rebellion, crazy, or some other synonym that I missed. On reading the blog or the way some ladies respond to comments I came to some shocking realizations sometimes. Some of these realizations are to do with the amount of hate, deprivation, and extreme defensive position most take towards the other gender.

    Angry Woman

    Words like Stereotypical, typical, backward, average, mainstream, stupid, controlling, patriarchal, non-understanding, selfish, mean, sleazy, derogatory ... etc... are usually combined with men, or more particularly Arab men.

    I will go out on a limp and say that such a anger or hatred (if I can call it that) is almost totally absent from male blogs, if anything you'd probably find male blogs with more charm or seduction for the other gender or being mostly mellow at worst. (And sometime aggressive to their own gender)

    It only takes a single word of remote criticism from a male blogger to unleash the doors of hell, and the sky to fall in all fury down on misinformed, stupid, chauvinistic, women-contempting/hating pig who even thought of making such a remark. Again reinforcing the shocking observation that many women blogger are actually upset about something.

    I'm not sure if they're upset or if there are deeper rooted reasons for these bitter feelings.

    Don't get me wrong, I sympathise deeply with most women issues, and would love to have an opportunity to change the world positively to be more just, respectful and sensitive to women issues but if women really decide to earn and demand respect of this world, I think more rational approach to dealing with matters of concern is needed.

    I think its more important to get the point across than ramble over peoples attitudes. Because no matter what we do, people are not going to be up to our liking. That's why we need to always stick to the facts, logic and stay as much away from emotional responses that totally undermine our credibility

    Other Memories Documented on February 03
    « الرد على وفاء سلطانWill they ever quit!? »

    Memories....

    • #1
    • Dima
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 2/3/2007 1:23:00 PM
    Wow what a wise calm man we have here! ummm... quite impressive i'd say!
    • #2
    • kinzi
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 2/3/2007 1:59:44 PM
    I'd say it's a man writing this post. All due respects, Qwaider, you are a great guy :).

    BUT...maybe you need to be a woman awhile. If I don't get out of Jordan once a year, to a place where I am considered equal and not just created to be a sexual plaything or someone who is not morally or intellectually or emotionally deficient as a result of my gender, I GO CRAZY! Even my husband gets tired of how women are treated here.

    I'm going to start writing about issues in the coming weeks, mainly the issue of abuse. In the last class I just started, we were going over what defines abuse. The ladies said "This is our life, it is abuse as a lifestyle here". Part of it is we don't know how to break the pattern of self-abuse and abuse we practice against other women.I don't expect men to get it until we get over treating each other so badly.
    hmmm, i wouldn't call it an "arabic women rage", maybe coz i believe all women around the world sort of r saying the same stuff about men :) (call it a universal women rage if u like!)

    we don't hate men, we just hate what "some" men do ;) so when we say things like: stupid, controlling, non-understanding, selfish, mean, or whatever it is, we're actually talking about a bad experience we had... (which doesn't have to apply on all me!), but after having a bad experience after another after another, we start developing the above mentioned image about men, and a tiny hope remains that we might "someday" meet a man with a different mentality :)

    perhaps things may seem worse on our side of the world, maybe coz it's a "man's society"... our culture, traditions, and sometimes our religion gives the man more "freedom". men here r used to having this done, and are used to get what they want when they want, which really is annoying at a certain point!

    actually some men say the same stuff about women ;) (and sometimes even worse!, so we're sort of equal :) the point is, it's not a "gender" issue as much as it's a character and mentality issue... i can prove it by the fact that women also say mean stuff about other women too ;)
    I think that every man and woman is an isolated case…you can’t generalize such topic…when the man in a woman’s life is a good person..she will have positive ideas about the other gender.

    After all, being REAL Muslims will save us all…
    • #6
    • Hope
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 2/3/2007 8:42:36 PM
    Kinzi, I know arab girls who had relationships with foreign men who treated them as morally, intellectually or emotionally deficient. I lived all my life in Jordan so I really do not know how women are treated in the States but I do watch Oprah and Dr. Phil :-) so unless those two shows exagurate the situation, I really don't think it is any better from what it is here in Jordan. One can't and shouldn't generalize but one needs to vent when put through hell (women vent, men tend to overwork :-). So Qweider, when we talk about men, we talk about men, it is just that our experiences are mostly with fellow Jordanians, thus the emphasis on you guys!
    Dima:
    Thanks
    Kinzi:
    Thank you very much, but as you can see, you too my wise friend have fallen into the same trap, when I read your comment I see "Men are insensitive", "Men don't understand", "Women are abused as a way of life" don't you find that last statement a massive over exaggeration? I mean, granted some women are abused, same goes to men by the way. But going as far as saying "as a way of life" is vastly over amplified.
    Whisperer who will remain anonymous:
    I'm not criticizing passionate women, there's a huge difference between passion and Anger. And yes, Male blogs tend to attract women and viceversa.
    I'm not sure why you think I'm being rude, I'm not trying to be rude or silly. Nor do I fancy people licking my shoes. I am however talking about a very serious issue that I have been witnessing for a while.
    And thank you, alf mabrook.
    Rain Drop:
    Welcome back my friend, it's been a while :)
    Nope, I'm seeing this more and more in Arabic blogs. What triggered me is that I was reading a number of all western women blogs. And although the tend to have other specific patterns (talking about their boyfriends, about their dates, about last night out, ..etc) I didn't see the pattern that I mentioned above.
    I absolutely understand that most don't hate men, but it's similar to a collective response. Many I'm noticing are choosing rebellion and anger over anything else.
    So you also started talking about disappointments and where it leads, but it's mostly because women tend to over expect from a relationship. And when prince charming, who got the car, the house, the money, the diamond ring and everything else, forgets only the red rose, the planet goes up in flames. (tell me that this has not happened)
    The limits of freedom for men and women are set by their locale, I've had male friends who couldn't stay out till 7 pm, and female friends who were allowed to come back home at 4Am. But I agree with you, it is a male dominated society, with loopholes for women who have learned to take advantage of them to their benefit.
    I'm yet to come across a women-hate-blog, it's like a Taboo to mention women in any bad way.

    What I'm trying to say, is that if a guy, talked in the same exact way to women, he would be buried!

    Jumana:
    Although I have not generalized, I did mention that a great number of blogs have indeed such issues and content. And yes, absolutely, we base our views on the people we knew, but sometimes we have the ability to observe outside of our environment
    "And when prince charming, who got the car, the house, the money, the diamond ring and everything else" looooooooooool, is that ur idea about prince charming? lol, sorry to say this, but ur waaaaay too wrong :) ok, we do appreciate it if those things were available, but if that's what pince charming is supposed to be like, i would have been married more than 5 years ago :) but it isn't the case :)

    and no, not all would get angry if he forgot about her birthday or any other occassion... not as long as she knows that he really truely cares for "her" as a person and treats her right... women changed ;) but so did men these days...

    the general current trend is "greedy" from both genders, that i understand, but when it comes to proposing in a very rude way and at the very wrong time (such as the father's funeral), that i totally don't understand...

    u said smth about "over expect from a relationship", but how do u define that? the spread mentality in our society is that the man should be polite, religious and capable of providing a house, food, clothes and other necessary stuff, and if the wife had a maid in her parents house, then he should get her 1... (al rejalo qawamoona 3ala al nesa2 bema anfaqo men amwalehem), and above all that, he has to treat her with love and be kind with her... if that's over expecting, then plz let me know :)

    am not defending women, i know how they're like, but am not going to stand on men's side either, i had more than enough ;) all i have to say is 1 thing, if every man out there treated the lady infront of him the same way he would like his own sister or mother to be treated, and managed to provide her with the same living style he wants for them, then i do believe women would stop saying "things" about men :)
    • #9
    • kinzi
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 2/3/2007 9:57:57 PM
    Hope, I've lived in the US 29 years, Europe 4 and Jordan for 14. There is simply no comparison, the freedom to be a woman - well, I guess you'll just have to experience it. I even stand up straighter in the US. Maybe we should ask Iman, Natasha and Hala, who are Jordanian and have lived both. LOL Oprah and Dr. Phil, I haven't ever watched either but I don't imagine the former attracts 'normal' Americans.

    I do love Jordan, though, in spite of the bad behaviour of half it's citizens. :) I'm going to post an article I wrote about being a foreign woman in Jordan soon. I also have an article coming on this subject, but I think they are changing the title; I chose "Are All Arab Men Jerks?" with NO being the answer in the piece. You will be proud of me, Q.

    Qwaider, thanks for still thinking I'm wise even when we disagree :). Remember, my husband thinks the same thing, and it was the girls in my course who said abuse is a way of life, not me!

    AND...none of my married girlfriends make a habit of complaining about our husbands to the degree you describe.
    Wow, I didn't expect such huge responses!
    Rain Drop
    The prince charming is an example of getting stuck on details. Many don't, and count their blessings, but others don't appreciate the lot for the little. Its not about the specifics in this case, but it's probably my fault for not making it clearer.
    And you're right not ALL get angry about someone forgetting things, but lets be a little bit more realistic, many do.
    Now you totally took me off guard when you talked about greed, that might be a social direction and we should probably write about you. Make it your next article, and I'd be glad to read all about it.
    You had to squeeze "maid" in there didn't you? I for one am TOTALLY against maids, I think it's a form of slavery and would prefer not to get into that discussion, at this point

    Kinzi,
    I have no doubt that your wisdom and experience far exceeds mine, and I have total respect for that. I also don't disagree that there are certain social norms that really need to change. But I do believe that opportunity is hammering on the door for women in the middle east, it's the best time to actually make something out of it.
    I am sure many have gave you hard time, being blond, female, and in Jordan with the kind of ideas some people promote about women of the west. And I sincerely apologize for all of that, these are some of the things that REALLY need to change.
    It would be interesting to read the Arab Men are Jerks article sounds very interesting to me, and I'm always proud of you Kinzi

    Now, "None of my married friends make it a habit of complaining" which means to me. "They complain", possibly often but it's not habitual (as far as you can see). Well, most Arab men don't complain about their wives AT ALL (except if he's hitting on some other chick to get her sympathy, and .. you know)
    • #11
    • Hope
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 2/3/2007 10:38:24 PM
    Exactly Kinzi, those shows dont attract normal Americans, they attract those abused and this is what this is all about: abused women!  
    lol, no thanx, if i do write about it ra7 anfehem '3alat 4 sure! (besides, this is a very powerful reason to say NOOO to the "M" word ;)

    i'll leave the honor of writing about this topic to u, and i'll be more than happy to comment ;)

    about maids, lol, i had a nany specially brought for me before i was even born, i don't think i'll manage living without maids for a long time ;) ( am a spolied child ;)

    i don't consider it slavery, simply coz u didn't (buy) the maid, you don't "own" her for her whole life, ur paying her a salary, and she's doing the same stuff ur wife would have done if she didn't have 1 ;) (actually less) i call it (work), simply coz there is a contract, rules, and a monthly salary (which a slave doesn't have!) and she agreed on doing the job, no1 forced her to do that :) and in the end, she's going back to her country! she can also leave whenever she wants if the employer broke 1 of the rules... (if what she's doing is slavery, then i guess that what ur wife would be doing should be considered so, except for the fact that she won't get paid for doing it ;) (i love it when i win :D )
    Hope, but Abused as a way of life is really an overstatement

    Rain Drop, You ARE spoiled! read this: Maid in Amman
    It is a form of slavery ... it absolutely is!
    If the wife (AND the HUSBAND) do these things, that is fine, they have a family to take care of. But importing slaves to do this job is not
    Qwaider,

    I'm glad to hear that Arab women are angry. We can't have a revolution without anger. Slaves were angry at the master before they got free. Colonized people got angry at the conlonizer before they won their independence. Women must get angry at men if they want to be free and independent.

    My problem with women, especially Arab women, is that they are not angry enough. Personally, I'm mad!!
    LOL Amal, I can see you're really angry!! :)

    Do you think it's enough? Don't you think we need more directed and harnessed anger! Just like nuclear weapons, you can use it for good or for bad! But you need to harness it to be able to use it for good
    no,it's not enough. But it's a necessary step. So let the girls rant!
    • #17
    • Iman
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 2/4/2007 8:07:08 AM
    Kinzi,

    briefly, based on my personal experience when visiting amman, I would have to say walking down the streets in chicago is much more comfortable than walking down amman streets... despite man's nature generally, men here in the US tend to be a bit more respectful to women than men in amman.
    Hmm, it is not really something I noticed, but to be honest is not something that surprises me. Why? not because men are evil chauvantistic women bashing pigs... no, because on the one hand we have rights and the structure for a pleasant, independent life. But we do not seize it, because 1) we are afraid of being judged as 2awaya 2)  many cannot be bothered to face criticism.

    I cant begin to tell some of the sould crushing remarks I have had for pursuing studies to the level I have... and horror of all horrors am working on a career which, no, I will not give up. There is nothing wrong with this... but people try to guilt me into saying things like I will never get married, or men who will marry you will be either spineless or will break you... and from what I have seen, am beginning to agree. People also assume, that because I am the female I MUST give up all independence in life work and thought when it comes to men. But, nowhere does it say that a man's ambitions supercede the womens, and nowhere does it say that women are soley responsible for house and children... it is supposed to be a joint effort.

    I have had lost out on some rather golden opportunities simply because of my gender, I have been harassed on public transport, and felt paralysed to do anything, because I have heard of other women who did something and THEY were scorned. I did not recieve the encouragement to succeed that men did... i fought for the chances I got.

    I am at a position now, that had I been a man, would have reached 3 years ago... simply because of restrictions imposed on me for being female. I also see my university colleages, throwing away university degrees... if they were not to use them? why waste time and money pursuing them? the life lessons they claim to learn at university do not prepare them for married life... so why bother?

    Dont get be wrong, I am grateful (very much so) for getting the chances I did, and for getting here at all. It is not bitterness that consumes me, it is simply the injustice of it all that angers me... and I suppose will anger others too.
    You know Laila, people like you are examples to be followed, not only by younger females, but also males.
    Your success and the amazing career direction you have is definitely admirable to say the least. I'm sure the world wasn't very helpful in your case and you had to earn it it wasn't handed to you on a silver platter
    I do feel that you have little anger in you, but you're not raging with it, and you really set a model on how to channel that rage in the right direction. Your career.. Not just anger for the sake of anger towards the other gender. And I admire that in you too.
    If anything you and many like you are setting the trends, and shifting the way people look at you, and the way women look at themselves.
    • #20
    • Anas
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 2/20/2007 1:08:20 AM
    Nothing 2 say
    You too can have your Memories Documented

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