Bride's virginity!
- By: Qwaider
- On:Thursday, January 04, 2007 8:49:28 PM
- In:Thoughts
- Viewed: (5740) times
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Rated 4.5/5 stars (184 votes cast)
A very intriguing article by
Iman titled simply "
Unfaithful", where she displayed a picture of a lady during hymen reconstruction plastic surgery to hide or mask her past in what appears to be a way to comply with strict social codes of some societies around the world. The article has stirred controversy over the delicate matter to some.
Some people see it as absolutely unacceptable, while others view it as woman's right to do so. Similar to many things that people bullishly charge to defend mainly due to social epidemics that have been left unchecked for a very long time.
Unfortunately, many fail to see that a bride having her hymen intact is absolutely no guarantee of her virtue in the world where other sexual practices are quite common place. Raising many doubts regarding this matter. What such surgeries provide is one more way to mask is a past that may or may not be as active as some might imagine.
Hymen would generally break during sexual activities that require vaginal penetration, with so many different variations to the procedure, anyone above the age of 13 probably already know all about this.
But what hymen doesn't prove is some one's virtue in the presence of other sexual practices that don't involve penetration. In addition, with reconstruction that advantage is totally lost. Having an intact hymen doesn't guarantee for a single moment that the lady is disease free or that a relationship would last, since that factor is seriously over exaggerated by many.
Many prefer to have a meaningful relationship and learn to accept and move on from that point onward, mainly because the past should really be put to sleep and not even thought about. While others are adamant in requiring absolute purity.
In a society like Jordan where honor killings are still practiced, many find that this "reconstruction" is the only option out for ladies, when in fact, it complicates the matter even more and puts the burden of living with it on the future husband instead of where it should really fall. The family of the girl, and their beliefs.
Islamically speaking, the punishment for premarital sex is absolutely NOT death. And when a man discovers that his bride is not a virgin he has two simple choices. "امساك بمعروف او تسريح بإحسان" and that is basically, keep the marriage and be compassionate or, or let her go and also be good with her.
Since the Islamic rule is very clear, there is no need for anyone to decide that the Islamic rule is too humane and decide to take matters in their own hands by simple murdering the girl. While usually the accomplice is still at large.
Another Islamic piece of information about this is that Virginity, is really not a condition to marriage, therefore a husband discovering such matter can choose one of the two things mentioned above.
Again, people seem to forget that having a hymen is just like many things, doesn't guarantee virtue after marriage, doesn't guarantee a good relationship or a meaningful existence.
My personal view on this is that both parties need to be open and frank about their condition. For example, a future wife needs to be absolutely in the clear about her future husbands issues, like Sexually transmitted diseases or impotence or anything related to that. It's her absolute right to know. Similarly the husband has the right to know about hers. If they agree and decide to go on despite these matters and decide that the relationship is more important than that stupid membrane, then they have made a conscious decision to overlook the past and focus earnestly on the future.
Some argue that sometimes, the woman doesn't know the suitor well enough to tell him, but I find that absurd, if you don't know someone well enough to tell them about your past, then how the hell are you going to share their bed!
The issue is not about "اذا بليتم فاستتروا" as in if you had a problems hide them. But rather a matter of trust and honesty. If some one's previous mistake includes a sexually transmitted disease, the partner has every right to know. In fact, it's a law, such things Must be disclosed in advance. People just need to stop thinking of non-virgins as people who have committed "mistakes" and rather it's a condition. Maybe it wasn't a mistake, maybe she was absolutely convinced and enjoyed it! Who knows, branding it as a "mistake" is just another method of aliasing the condition.
At the end of the day, what's a marriage without honesty? I fail to find an answer to that other than ... "Nothing!". Quite frankly, I would rather ending up with a non-virgin than someone who tried to fool me!
Fadi: الله يرحمها و يجعل مثواها بعليين و يجمعك معها بالجنة بعد عمر طويل
بلوجر بالعربي: looks very good
Noura: Different home, but same longing and nostalgia .. it seems we are chasing a mirage , Beirut of my dreams does not exist nor the people i miss .. i don't know if my gains were worth the losses ? I 
price waves repeat: The other day, while I was at work, my sister stole my iphone and tested to see if it can survive a 25 foot drop, just so she can be a youtube sensation. My iPad is now broken 
Sara: You can say that again!God Bless🕊
ياسمين حميد: كما هي طبيعتنا نحن العرب، عند الانتقال بين منصة وأخرى لا نحتفظ بالأولى بل نتركها ونهجرها. الأمور عندنا خاضعة ل
Qwaider: These possessions are meaningless as you said, but it's still painful to let go :( May Allah grant you all you wish for and unite you with your loved ones
Nicolas: The rapid increase in intelligence within this generation is responsible for completely unforeseen phenomena that academicians are not prepared for.Some of these classic TV shows remained 
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Fadi:الله يرحمها و يجعل مثواها بعليين و يجمعك معها بالجنة بعد عم%
بلوجر بالعربي:looks very good
Noura:Different home, but same longing and nostalgia .. it seems we are chasing a mirage , Beirut of my dreams does not exist nor the people i miss .. i don't know if my gains were worth the losses ? I
price waves repeat:The other day, while I was at work, my sister stole my iphone and tested to see if it can survive a 25 foot drop, just so she can be a youtube sensation. My iPad is now broken
Sara:You can say that again!God Bless🕊
ياسمين حميد:كما هي طبيعتنا نحن العرب، عند الانتقال بين منصة وأخرى لا نحت%
Qwaider:These possessions are meaningless as you said, but it's still painful to let go :( May Allah grant you all you wish for and unite you with your loved ones
Session=
Memories....
I for one know that I WILL undoubtedly leave a person who tries to fool me, but not someone who's honest and at least gives me the chance to decide.
Try to look at this problem from a different angle...why do women do this procedure? It is because of the cultural pressure ...people believe that this is the difference between right and wrong ...clean and dirty....it is very sad in my mind that we think that intact hymen and honour have something to do with each other.
1- the type that does it because they want to get married to this guy and that's it! ya3ni to cover up for the past, and fool the idiot who is getting married to her! In this case I would say allah la yrodo wala yrodha! seriously! If he is getting married to someone who can fool him around and who he doesnt know and can trust then he did a bad choice and probably married her because she looks good and that's it! If he can't tell if she was into her religion or not then allah la yrodo. If he cant tell if she atleast had some experience with other men then allh la yroddo! and one day he would eventually find out! A girl with no solid background of morals and religion has had sex before marriage and will do it with someone else other than the husband one day!!! She knew that pre-maritial sex was wrong but still went on with it and doctors have made the soltuion easy for her to get away with it.
2- the other type which has just occured to me is when some girl has had pre-maritial sex with someone. w sar elli sar! She felt terrible about it and promised herself to never do that again. and this is exactly what she did! NEVER did it again, fearing God and knowing that it was WRONG! Let's say that she has gone through TOUBAH and maintained it for a long while. But when the 3arees came she REALISED OH my God what can I do! and does the surgery!! can we forgive this person?
One more thing I would like to say is that " Al Tayeboon lel Tayebat" If a guy deserves to be fooled because he has done the worst in his life then God will give him what he deserves! It is a male's duty to keep himself out of non-maritial sex because only that way he will make sure that all the women around him ( mom, sister, wife) will be good people!
I wish more men were like you, valuing honesty above virginity. ALL aspects of virginity are extremely important...I even believe emotional virginity is important. You also have the integrity not to be the kind of guy who promises a naive girl the moon and marriage, then gets what he wants and moves on.
Like Nas said, it is all about intentions. Whether to deceive, or cover an area thoroughly repented of as Ramroom says in point 2.
A good relationship, and an honest marriage is worth a million of these cover-ups
As a male who's had many excellent relationships, not necessarily intimate, I can assure you a good person is worth overlooking their mishaps as for sins, it's for god to forgive not mortals
first of all virginity is a precondition for marriage, it was meant to be that way. otherwise premarital sex would not be a sin, otherwise it wouldn't be called pre-marital. does that mean non-virgins cannot marry (in defining 'condition')? obviously not. but the religious way to do it is to avoid it all together. hence the point of making it a sin and issuing a punishment, which while is not death is still a very harsh punishment.
second of all you seem to be advocating an open door policy of honesty between wife and husband, or potential wife and husband. but you cast religion aside here. a person and their sins are between them and God and in Islam it is even recommended that if you seek God's forgiveness then the best policy is to keep your sin hidden as people are less forgiving. the point is that there is no good to come of it. honesty is one of those ideas that sounds great theoretically and just plain fails in practice. a potential suitor is told by a potential wife that she has had premarital sex (in the name of honesty) and things fall apart. she is socially cast aside.
which brings us to point three: a woman's best option, purely from a religious standpoint, is to seek forgiveness and then to keep it to herself in order to best protect herself and those around her.
the virtue of a person is not dependent on who they were in the past but who they are in the present and who they aspire to be in the future. and certainly the virtue of a woman is not dependent on a hymen of all things.
Now, things may fall apart for someone who has done something, what that means is that the man has decided not to accept that specific lady and not to take it after being told the truth. He had the choice to do so, unlike the situation where he is fooled into it and has no choice what so ever.
The next thing is about taking the religious aspect of the matter. This issue is not only religious, but has multiple dimensions. As you can see the article is long enough without getting into every single detail, when each needs a full study to probe everything about it. I opted to touch on things and keep going. Leaving the rest to the intelligence of the readers while not undermining it.
Finally corrections,
a) Virginity is not a precondition to marriage, since a condition/precondition requires to invalidate a contract and virginity doesn't invalidate it
b) premarital sex is as much a sin as lying is a sin, one is punished by 100 flogs and the second by 80. It's not like adultery there's a huge difference, I'm sure you're already aware
c) It's improper to describe something as "making it a sin" because of "x y z", simply because we are not at a position of God to decide why a specific thing was done in a specific manner. Maybe that is the point, maybe that's one of the points and maybe it's something else altogether.. Anyway, I got your point and agree with it
virginity does not invalidate of course...i'm talking about the religious commitment of marriage, between two people and God. remove the issue of premarital sex from islam and re-evaluate the equation and you'll see what i mean. and yes its not like adultery but one flog is not an easy punishment let alone 80 or 100, which is indicative of obvious and intentional harshness to sway a person from it in the first person. in other words harshness in punishment is not reserved to a death penalty alone.
lastly, to reiterate the argument of honesty since you brought up the judicial system: most of these sins, especially this one, are dependent on confession. a person would not be punished if he or she didnt say anything. it is the revealing of it that turns up the heat under the still pot.
Nas, the fooling comes from someone trying to sell you a Corolla claiming it to be a Civic. Got what I mean, it's not the same thing. And while I personally think someone maintaining her virginity is good, ,I can't claim that she is better than someone who lost it.
I brought up the judicial system just as an example of past actions, but you can use the credit system or anything else that takes history into consideration when deciding on the future.
Honesty is not something guaranteed by the law, it's the part of the moral code that helps guide people in their interactions. Just like the ten commandments are mostly not laws so are the laws of good conduct
Anyway, I don't feel that we're really disagreeing here, we're viewing the same thing from different angles, mine is more leaning towards knowing everything before making my decision
a person is not entitled to know absolutely everything. if another person wants to share it then so be it but i wouldn't recommend it. somethings are just meant to be between a mortal and his or her God; meant to be kept that way.
i know a lot of people say "honesty is the best policy" simply because it's what people want to hear, especially women for some reason.
but seriously, in some cases it's just not.
that was my point, that was my angle.
And yes, Absolutely everything is not the goal here, but some things are related.
And I stand by women's side on the honesty thing, no matter how cliche that might be. The flip side is what you don't know will not hurt you, but do you find that it really wouldn't hurt? What if he or she had an STD? What if he or she had a child or some lingering emotions. Wouldn't you want to at least ask these questions before you dive head first into the abyss?
Excuse me for seeing marriage as such a huge turning point in someone's life, but I honestly and wholeheartedly think that it is.
not to mention that these same prerequisites placed on a woman are not placed on her counter part. this whole surgery is merely leveling the playing field biologically and perhaps that is what scares some people.
perhaps we should have a system in place where a doctor checks both the man and woman for stds, the women for her virginity and the man gets to take a polygraph test. then they both get certifications they can put on their marriage resume.
we worry so much about honesty in such a dishonest world and we ignore other things like faith, trust and even love.
iman: i didnt say anything about lying so your comment is irrelevant to anything i've just said. if you want to put words in my mouth that's fine, just don't expect me to bite.
but seriously, in some cases it's just not.
that was my point, that was my angle."
Over expecting?
When Musa pbuh and Israelites experienced a long drought with no sign of water he gathered them to ask God for water who in return told him He would not make it rain as there was a man in the crowd who had disobeyed Him for 40 years. The man had to be removed in order for it to rain. So Musa pbuh began interrogating people looking for the man and asking him to step forward. The man knew himself and feeling so ashamed of his sin he began to supplicate to God, repenting and asking not to expose him and so the rain began to fall. When Musa pbuh asked God who the man was God replied that He had concealed the man's sin for 40 years and after such repentance He would not reveal it now.
The point is that people sin. From a religious perspective it happens. Premarital sex is a religious element and it does take place and like any other sin people do regret it and do repent. So if we want to start interrogating women about their past in order to judge them as virtuous in God's eyes nonetheless, then we're either being selfish for our own stakes or playing God's lawyer.
When the Prophet Mohammad pbuh said marry a woman for her religion, he didn't mean ask her if she's still a virgin and measure her virtue on that scale. In that same manner when I said honesty may not always be the best policy I was not implying that lying is.
The first one is a scandal while the other one will promote understanding compassion and a relax the tensions in a relationship promoting trust and tolerance and above all, honesty. Because all has been laid to sleep and what is left is moving forward
Now, this might not be the case with everyone.
There's a huge difference between deliberately deceiving someone in a premeditated fashion, and say, just hiding it. The two are not the same, and had that man been asked by Moses and he denied it he would have committed a greater sin.
Everything can be argued both ways, and lets at least consider that we "WISH" to to receive whatever we are arguing for, Me a virgin or someone who's going to let me know everything before I get married, and you a lady that has gone through hymen reconstruction surgery for some reason but you wouldn't know that... now would you?
and no where in my comments have i suggested deliberately deceiving someone. a rape victim is restoring her own sense of virtue by having such a surgery. in your mind she's out to entrap a suitor.
you can't white wash the whole situation as she's either lying or being honest, where one is virtuous and one is not.
here's my suggestion to you: instead of asking every girl you meet and want to marry whether she's a certified virgin and if she wouldn't mind providing biological evidence to verify her status, I would develop the relationship until you are sure this is the person you want to marry. when you're in that position and you just know that this is right then a solid bridge of trust and communication will already be built and if she has something to admit then she will and if she doesnt and you discover she's not a virgin then it wouldn't and shouldn't matter at that point.
or to put it in an anology you'll understand...if you grow to love the corolla when its really a civic then it shouldn't matter because all this time you were really digging the civic
We're not judging the actual act of premarital sex here, but rather the act of covering up.
My view:
a) it's not necessary
b) It's falsification of facts
c) Its an attempt (if undisclosed) to deceive a person who might have chosen differently had he known
In affect the result is that someone has MANIPULATED someone else, and taken advantage of a well known condition.
This is no different than the lady who has breast implants and doesn't tell her husband before hand. Same goes for the guy who has importance, or an STD, or a degenerative disease and fails to let his LIFE PARTNER know.
Thank you for your suggestion, no matter how condescending that part of your comment was. I will choose to ignore it.
secondly, losing one's virginity is not equal to having a degenerative illness. it is not a condition. it is deemed immoral and islamically unacceptable, but nevertheless not a disease.
this surgery has valid medical uses which depend on intentions.
men (specifically we arab men) are not so much afraid of the possibility of getting an std or even being lied to as much as it is the concept that she has been with another man.
you had three points that make up your view, but let us put a rape victim in the mix. let us put a girl who made a mistake and has decided to do away with her past as all men have the option of doing.
also i dont understand how a woman who decides to get breast implants without informing her husband is the same as a woman who doesnt tell a suitor that she's not a virgin. in any case, should we do away with breast implants and plastic surgery? a great deal of the benefecires of this specific surgery by the way are women who have recovered from breast cancer.
here's an even better scenario for you brother...
imagine you fall in love with a girl and decide to marry her. she then tells you the face you've grown to love is not hers but a facially reconstructed one after a horrible car accident.
imagine the same scenario but with her telling you she's not a virgin.
i don't want your answer...i just want you to think about your reaction to either case and what the end result would be. and i mean really internalize your answer deep down.
If anyone has insecurities regarding this matter, then it's their right to know, and I stand absolutely firm to that, there is no way that I would prefer deceit to honesty no matter what the cause might be. A person who deliberately tries to pass as someone else, or with other "enhancements" without informing the other party is definitely attempting to fool them. There is no question about that in my mind and from any angle you look at it. You are supposed to get what you "bargained" for not something else.
If someone is going to share someone else's life, sharing something as trivial as a surgery, or an enhancements is really not that big of a deal
Finally, if someone gets to know someone and loves the person. They will most likely prefer the person and the relationship and consciously accept the added risk for the sake of that person, because when all is said and done, that person will be worth more to them than their membrane or lack of.
I think I have stated my position a million times already, "IF" I love the girl, everything else becomes meaningless! Virginity included
واللي علي راسه بطحة.. بيحسس عليها
secondly i agree with you that deceit is not a good policy. but if a woman is asked whether she is a virgin and she says no then that is in fact deceit. but if she is not asked and the world keeps turning then there is no deceit taking place. my argument here is that sometimes some things are better kept secret as they only set unnecessary fires. in islamic jurisprudence it is even recommended that people who have committed zina not reveal it to the state because then it becomes a state matter that involves society and thus punishment as opposed to a personal matter that involves the person and God.
it brings up the question of whether we seek out a life partner for their past or their present.
"everything else will become meaningless, virginity included"...exactly...so how relevant is asking a girl whether she's a virgin really play out in any type of relationship?
I really do not respect this whole deceiving surgery but hey I also have no respect whatsoever for our double standard society.
In our society, there are four choices for a woman:
1- sexually inactive
2- sexually active WITHOUT loosing her virginity
3- sexually active WITH loosing her virginity
4- sexually active, lost her virginity AND had surgery
Case one is a man's trophy: he can rest assured that he got the best deal ever.
Case two is a man's dream: he thinks he got the best deal ever but other men know he didn't, and he will remain dreaming unless he happens to meet one of them and gets a wake up call.
Case three is a man's nightmere: he knows BUT he would rather noone else does. His openmindedness in this case is just like her long lost virginity: something he is ashamed of and would rather not be discussed.
Case four is AGAIN a man's trophy: he thinks he got the best deal, well UNTILL he meets one of the guys, gets the wake up call, goes into a nightmere, and the vicious cycle begins, or does it actually continue because it really never came to an end??
Without hymen reconstruction, chances are a man in love will grow out of love. As deceiving as hymen reconstruction is, it is being done and untill we reconstruct our double standards into one that applies to both genders, can we really blame girls who do it????
The part about keeping something a secret from the masses I agree with, but not the specific person who's going to share everything with her, she's going to be regarded as part of his honor and that means a lot in the Arabic/Islamic mindset. If he so chose to, let it go. That's fine, otherwise someone else would accept.
That is a very good question Nas, in my personal view, we look for the relationship, the person, the future, the stability, the security the affection anything that guarantees our future. It's simplistic think that virginity would guarantee any of that. That's why I'm not so keen on that matter by it self.
The matter is not "Asking the girl if she's a virgin" but rather, "Why is a girl hiding behind a hymen reconstruction surgery"
Totally against 4, unless there's a life threatning situation. And in most cases there isn't (life threatning situation = parents checking her out for virginity and vowing to kill her, husband has no right in that)
But when checking, a good doctor will know if she had had surgery or not! So ...hmm I won'der if that works
You know, scratch what I just said, I'm ok with all 4 options as long as I'm aware of them.