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« دورة الحياةما بشغل بنتي سوكرتيرة »

إلكترا و اوديب

  • By: Qwaider

  • On:Thursday, October 05, 2006 8:50:12 AM
  • In:Thoughts
  • Viewed: (13549) times

    • Currently 4.4/5 Stars.
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    Rated 4.4/5 stars (289 votes cast)

    كل ما اقرأ اي شي لسيجموند فرويد بحس فعلا بالقرف الشديد، بالنسبة الى ابو علم النفس الحديث، نحن مليئين بالعقد، امّا اولاد يحبّو امهاتهم .. وامّا بنات يحبّون آبائهم بطريقة بشعة!

    o

    افكر بيني و بين نفسي .. هل يعقل ان شخص .. اي شخص ان يسر في نفسه حب مريض لأمه؟ او كره لأبيه لأنه متزوج من امه.. شيء في قمة القرف!

    المشكلة عند اوديب و الكترا عجيبة! فأوديب بعد ان قتل اباه، و هزم ابو الهول تزوج بدون علمه من امه جوكوست. و انجب منها اربع ابناء.. و عندما علم بالأمر فقأ عيناه و قامت جوكوست بالأنتحار.. المهم.. استغل فرويد هذه القصة ليطلق الاسم على حب الابناء لأمهاتم بتلك القصة ..

    امّا الكترا فكانت ابنة اجمنون (الملك الكريه الذي كان اخيل في خدمته ايام حرب طروادة) المهم .. كانت الكترا تكره امها بشدة و اقنعت اخوها بقتلها من فرط حبّها المرضي لأبوها (اللي ما كان حد يحبه اصلا بسبب طمعة و جشعة قهره للعباد) فاستغلّوا الاسم ليطلقوه على من تحب اباها حب مرضي!

    ليست هذه قصة فيلم هندي او اوبرا صابون و لكنها من الاساطير اليونانية القديمة طبعا قصص و خرابيط ما انزل الله بها من سلطان .. العبرة اللي طلع فيها فرويد و عممها طبعا على الجميع هي العقد المرضية عند الرجال و السيدات ...

    مشكلتي مع هذه القصص و فرضيات علم النفس انها تفسّر هذه الامراض بطريقة مقرفة ... فأذا احبت البنت اباها و هو امر طبيعي ... و طبيعي جدا اصبحت مصابة بعقدة الكترا! شيء عجيب!

    القضية بالعقل! هل يوجد على وجه الارض من يحب البنت اكثر من اباها و امّها؟؟ او من يحب الابن اكثر من امه و ابيه؟ و الحب والاهتمام لا يقابل الا بالاحترام و الحب! و اعجاب البنت بأبيها -الطبيعي- يكون عادة بسبب تعامله و احترامه لبناته.. و تمنّي المرأة لرجل يحبها و يعطف عليها كأبيها هو الامر الطبيعي!

    كل شخص يتمنّى اشخاص بعظمة والديه الذين افنوا حياتهم من اجلة او اجلها.. و وظيفة الزوج ليست فقط و ظيفة الفحل! فهو ايضا الاب والاخ والصديق و الحبيب! و ظيفة الزوجة ليست فقط الحمل و الانجاب وما الى ذلك فهي السكن و الرفيقة و الحبيبة و الأخت و الام و الصاحبة ... حتى القرآن ينادي الزوجة بالصاحبة لدلالة ان العشرة اقوى حتى من وظيفة الزوجة البيولوجية

    اتمنى ان يأتي من يضحد هذه النظريات المقرفة التى تقوم على مبدأ ان الانسان سيّء بطبعه... وليس ان الانسان خيّر بطبعه و الظروف هي التي تغيره..

    هذا ما يضايقني في فرويد و ميكافيللي! و احس انهم يفكّرون بطريقة الكارهون لأنسانيتهم (و امثلة حولنا كثيرة لأشخاص كارهين لشخصهم و هويتهم.. اما العربية .. او الاسلامية .. او حتى جنسهم من ذكر او انثى)... و اتمنى لو كانت عندي دكتوراة في علم النفس يكون مبدا البحث فيها بكل بساطة... اعادة الانسانية السامية للانسان و حتى المريض نفسيا.. وافتراض الخير اصلا في النفس البشرية ... فالفطرة دائما نقيّة، طاهرة، بريئة .. على ما فطرها الله في الناس اجمعين

    Other Memories Documented on October 05
    « دورة الحياةما بشغل بنتي سوكرتيرة »

    Memories....

    Salam Qweider,
    two notes:
    1- Freud uses "Oedipus" as a name for his theory, but he does not mean that the origin of our love to our parents is sexual only. I would say the name of the theory is misleading (since it reminds people of the greek myth around it).

    Freud was trying to explain why kids, at a certain age, feel a "selfish" love towards their mother or father, and they don't want anybody to share their attention with them.

    For example, when a kid gets a brother or sister, he feels very jealous of them because of the attention they get, especially from the mother.

    Freud was trying to explain the jealously that the first kid feels against his father (even before the kid has any brothers or sisters).

    Freud's theory is that there's this "basic desire" that is born with the person and that it evolves. His theory is that this basic desire starts as "food - mouth related" (this is why babies like to eat), and then morphes into the desire to control one's discharge (ya3ni ass), and then turns into this parent-jealousy, and finally, when the person is old enough, it turns into the sexual desire we have.

    He says that in certain patients, this parent-jealousy feeling lingers so long, to the point it turns sexual. But he doesn't say that this is how every person thinks. He says that normal people, when they hit puberty, somehow come to "repress" sexual feelings toward their parents, and thus not think about their relationship towards them this way.

    In another way, the theory tries to explain why some patients have such parental-sexual ideas and how most people avoid them.

    Whether this theory is true or false - I'll leave that to the shrinks!

    2- good news: this theory did not go without critique
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oedipus_Complex#Critiques_of_the_Oedipus_Complex

    Critiques of the Oedipus Complex

    Popular culture often portrays Freud as overly focused on sexual influences and his theory of the Oedipus Complex is often considered untenable. However, there have always been a great deal of critiques of the Oedipus complex among psychoanalysts and philosophers who acquainted themselves with the work of Freud.

    Alfred Adler contended with Freud's belief over the dominance of the sex drive and whether ego drives were libidinal; he also attacked Freud's ideas over repression. Adler believed that the repression theory should be replaced with the concept of ego-defensive tendencies - compared to the neurotic state derived from inferiority feelings and overcompensation of the masculine protest, Oedipal complexes were to him insignificant. Although Freud believed that the Oedipus complex takes place around the age of five, Melanie Klein believed it took place far earlier, possibly in the first two years of a child's life. There have also been criticisms from anthropologists such as Bronisław Malinowski or Edvard Westermarck. Research such as that of Malinowski in the Trobriand Islands is often cited as a challenge to Freud's conviction that the Oedipus complex is a universal phenomenon.
    test
    araf ye2ref el yahood !
    Arrabi, Wainak ya Zalameh?? Wallahi I miss you. How's little Layan doing?
    Now,
    I'm well aware of the name, and it's origins. But thank you very much for the addition it is valuable (and thank you for taking the time to write such a long and comprehensive comment)
    Now, the reason I get upset reading that stuff is there are parts of Electra complex where they talk about penis envy and women visualising getting pregnant by their own father. Many other very disgusting details if you look a little deeper into it. Same goes to Oedipus.
    I hate it when we explain everything with sex. As if there is no other drive in the Universe
    يا زلمة بلا فرويد بلا بطيخ
    هاذا واحد مهووس بالجنس وعقلو ضارب وكان مدمن كوكائين درجة أولي يعني طول نهارو هاي وبسبح بالأحلام
    Muhammad Arabi, thx for the exaplanation. You gave us good info.

    Qwaider, I don't think that you are in a position to counter Freud's studies by only saying that you want to believe in the goodness of human nature. Freud was a scientist, he is highly respected in the psychological world, he based his theories on research and studies. If we fail to understand his theories, then it is our problems, not his.

    Sometimes we refuse to face reality because we have a set of believes that differs of what exists in real world. I am not saying that all people has a hidden sexual desire for their parents, but his theories do explain human behaviour at certain age.

    Abed Hamdan, Shoo dakhal el yahood halla2? Is it because Freud was a jew?

    Bakkouz! lol man, how can you turn such serious subject into this sarcasm? Was Freud really addicted?
    The Observer, Yes, he really was.
    The Obeserver, who gives you or anyone the right to "Box" me into a little space and not allow me to "argue" or "question" what is given even with a Scientist!? 90% of ALL theories turn out to be wrong (Fact). let me demonstrate;

    All the scientists of the world were convinced EARTH was flat!

    Next you're going to tell me I'm not in a position to criticize Machiavelli, or Hitler, or Nietzsche or what ever!
    Its a Good thing that Arrabi, mentioned a nice article criticizing Freud's "conclusions", In addition to me saying "اتمنى ان يأتي من يضحد هذه النظريات المقرفة التى تقوم على مبدأ ان الانسان سيّء بطبعه... وليس ان الانسان خيّر بطبعه و الظروف هي التي تغيره.. "
    which means, "Someone with more scientific approach " to the matter rather than my  moral, ethical, and logical issues with it

    A little advice to you ... Question EVERYTHING, No one has a monopoly over "Right"  or  "Truth"
    Qwaider, you are right about questioning everything, and yes, you have the right to speak up your mind (especially on your blog), but you have based your attack on a respected scientific theories on your personal set of believes without countering them with other scientific materials.

    Dont you think that I have the right to critisize you when I think you go wrong as you felt you had the write to critisize a respected scientist without any logical counter argument except your own feelings?
    You absolutely have every right to criticize my reasoning. But stating that I'm not in a position to do that is what got me going on.
    I value and respect your point of view, but I absolutely have issues with Freud. You may chose either, set of ideas. It's your choice.

    Being on my own blog doesn't mean that I'm a tyrant with my ideas and I've stood corrected on several occasions, as I view this as an opportunity for me to learn and grow. Yet at the same time maintaining my own personality and identity when it comes to my thoughts.
    • #12
    • Anonymous
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    • On: 3/22/2009 10:42:12 PM
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    يا اخي سجمون فرويد كان منظر علم نفس..وليس بالضرورة ان نظرياته خاطئة...انت تعتقد نها خاطئةلان مظاهرها ليست موجودة في بلادنابشكل كبير ولو كانت موجودة فهي مخفية ودائما ما خفي اعظم.ولا تنسى ان هذه المظاهر منتشرة بالغرب بشكل كبير
    وشكرا
    You too can have your Memories Documented

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