قال قضاء نزيه... قال

By: Qwaider

On:Tuesday, August 08, 2006 2:44:23 AM
In:Thoughts
Viewed: (6031) times

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قامت نزاهة محكمة امن الدولة المبجلة باصدار الاحكام "العادلة" على "شلة" النواب المسلمين الذين تجرأوا وعزّوا في الزرقاوي

القضية مش قضية الزرقاوي و ما عمله و الذي اختلف فيه الناس. القضية في سبب الاعتقال واسباب توجيه الاتهامات!

فحرية التعبير المفروض انها مكفولة في المجتمع. وما قام به النواب لا يخرج عن هذا السياق.
مع اعتراضي الشديد على الفعل الشائن من الاعضاء الا اني استنكر القضاء الغير عادل اكثر.

اولا هؤلاء الاعضاء المفروض وجود حصانة لهم

ثانيا، هم لم يشاركو بالعمل الاجرامي عل تراب الاردن ولا باركوه انما قاموا بالاشادة بميّت.. انتهى! لم يعد يهدد اي احد! (كشخص امل كفكر فلا زال موجود من قبل الحركات التكفيرية البغيضة)

نفسي اعرف على اي اساس أُدينوا؟ فعلى هذا الاساس اجد المحاكم الاردنية عبارة عن مهزلة!

وهذا شيء غير جديد فالمحسوبية والواسطة والفساد والترهل الاداري تنخر في كل مؤسسات المجتمع الاردني! للاسف.. بمباركة الحكومة.. او بغض الطرف من الحكومة .. كلا وحتى بمشاركة الحكومة و اعضاءها من رئيس وزراءك المفضل و جر نازل

سيأتي يوم انشاء الله نتعلم فيه معنى الديمقراطية و المواطنة... و الواسطة والاهداف الشخصية ليست من ضمن هذه المعاني.. لكن للاسف.. الى ذلك الوقت.. مضطرين الى التعايش مع قرف الواسطات

وبالعودة الى الموضوع الاصلي... الصراحة .. اعتقد ان المحكمة آثرت مقاضاتهم و الحكم عليهم سياسيا و ليس قضائيا...

لقراءة آراء اخرى.. باتر وردم في مقال جميل هنا: http://batir.jeeran.com/arabic/archive/2006/8/80188.html

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« Jordanian Alternating Current

احلام واوهام .. احمد و هيام »

Memories....

#1
Summer
Said
On: 8/8/2006 7:26:54 AM

this comment is not related to the subject. please visit this link that was sent to me earlier. http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/videoplayer/0,,31200-galloway_060806,00.html

#2
Jad
Said
On: 8/8/2006 7:35:10 AM

حج, في الوقت الذي اعتقلوا فية, لم يكن لديهم حصانة لان المجلس لم يكن مجتمعا, فالحصانة مثل الحضانة ثلاثة فصول بالسنة و الرق بينهم انك ان اخطاءت و انت بالحضانة فلك الحضانة و ان كانت خارج الحضانة فليس لك حصانة

#3
Qwaider
Said
On: 8/8/2006 7:42:34 AM

Wow! If you're an elected representatives. You're supposed to have immunity from prosecution based on your "job"
The idea is simple, you can only take to jail, people who have done something wrong!
This is becoming like a Mel Gibson trial

#4
Khalidah
Said
On: 8/8/2006 9:23:12 AM

and you think that they did not do anything wrong???
They were taken to jail just because the government felt like it???

#5
Danah
Said
On: 8/8/2006 9:32:33 AM

Qwaider ,

Being elected by people of this country, this implies certain things on those representatives. You cannot assume you are stating your personal opinion , when you are representing a slice of Jordanians ! Having them going to pay respects for Alzarqawie , while they are holding their positions in the parliament is definitely something repulsive . However, I agree with you regarding the injustice of verdicts

#6
Qwaider
Said
On: 8/8/2006 9:50:16 AM

Khalidah, the issue is not what they did or didn't do, and I stressed my utmost disgust to the act! But that still falls under freedom of speech. Why didn't the government arrest everyone in that funeral?
Yes, and the government needs some reality checks, they're not doing things right, and I feel that they're doing this to set an example. They didn't kill or support anyone, nor do they support killing of the innocent or terrorism. And mark my words, the supreme court is going to throw this verdict out as unconstitutional and unjust.

Danah, repulsive it may be (and I totally agree with you) it is still nevertheless something they have the right to do. There is not criminal punishment for going to someones funeral

#7
7ala
Said
On: 8/8/2006 9:56:53 AM

يعني احنا بس فالحين نضل نحكي عن حرية الرأي و حرية التعبير و احنا ما عنا هاي الحرية حتى للناس اللي اختاروهم الشعب !!!!

بغض النظر عن رأينا بالزرقاوي ، اذا في ناس ضده في ناس كمان معه و سواء كانوا صح أو خطأ لازم نحترم رأيهم لأنهم يمكن شايفين الموضوع من جوانب تانية .

أعتقد انه اللي بتحكي عنه يا قويدر موجود في الأردن فعلا بس مو فيها لحالها ، موجود في كل العالم العربي للأسف.

خالدة حبيبتي و الله حسب اللي ظاهر قدامنا ما عملوا شي غير انهم عزوا بالزرقاوي و اذا في شي تاني تأكدي انه حيكون انتشر في البلد من زمان .

يا جماعة هاد رأيهم و بحقلهم يفكروا زي ما بدهم .

لما انسحبت مجلة فيفا من السوق عشان كانت تحكي عن الشواذ جنسيا ، كلنا اعترضنا و حكينا انه هاد رأي المجلة و ما بحقلهم يسحبوها حتى لو ما عجبهم الكلام اللي فيها . و حكينا هاد شي كتير عيب و متخلف و غبي و كل المدونات صارت تعترض على الموضوع .

هلأ مجلة فيفا بحقلها تحكي شو ما بدها حتى لو ما كان مقبول و النواب ما بحقلهم يعبروا عن رأيهم بدون ما يتعاقبوا ؟؟؟!!!! و الله احنا غريبين

#8
Danah
Said
On: 8/8/2006 10:24:27 AM

But when you are representing "people" then you should be aware of this responsibility Qwaider . I know this should be a personal matter , which is why other people who paid respect were not charged ! and again thats why I do not agree with the verdict.

#9
Qwaider
Said
On: 8/8/2006 10:39:50 AM

They are representing people. If that wasn't the case, then no one would have showed up at the funeral. Don't you think?

#10
Danah
Said
On: 8/8/2006 10:44:58 AM

Okay , I can see your point Qwaider.

but knowing that such an action would raise a huge argument about the "purpose" of this visit "as representatives" could've been avoided.

#11
Khalidah
Said
On: 8/8/2006 10:49:09 AM

It was not only paying respect like all other people who were there and we all know that this was not what they were arrested for ... so let's not play the words game here

They went there and they gave themselves the right (as representatives of the people as you put it) to give speeches to praise Zarqawi and what he did and they gave him the martyr degree with honors ...

Excuse me for seeing this as punishable because as (representatives of the paople) .. they do have some influence and affect people ... at least those who put them in their places ... so it is not a matter of just going to a funeral and their speeches certainly do not fall under freedom of speech ... this is my opinion!

7ala, there is no comparison here with the VIVA issue ... because those guys represent and influence people's opinions, they bare a larger responsibility towards the people and the government .. be it political or ethical ...

Regardless of the verdict and the possibility of being rejected or accepted ... please let's not classify what they did as freedom of speech because it is not ... they are not activists, they are elected represesentatives of a part of the population (not me :)) and that makes all the difference!

#12
Qwaider
Said
On: 8/8/2006 11:24:58 AM

Khalidah, being representatives of people doesn’t put a cap on what they say or they don’t say
1) They didn’t commit treason. They stated their mind. and this is perfectly fine
2) Praising anyone is not punishable by the law, insulting someone is. Yes, it might be insensitive to many people, but nevertheless, it is not punishable by the law
3) They didn’t support his acts, they didn’t say it’s OK to bomb people.
4) Giving someone Martyr status, is a religious degree that has nothing to do with government, Law or anything else. You might disagree but it’s like a fatwa about making anything halal or haram, and last time I checked making these Fatwas, is not punishable under the law
5) I have no idea what you’re arguing about. It’s as clear as the sun! This is a political issue and not a criminal one. Taking the Government position blindly doesn’t resolve anything!
6) Again, mark my words, the supreme court is going to rebuttal this unjust verdict. For many reasons, one being unconstitutional, no punishable by the law and plain simply illogical and prejudice!

#13
Khalidah
Said
On: 8/8/2006 11:52:36 AM

Waaaal .. kol hadol?

Why do you get upset when someone does not agree with you?

I am not stating this opinion only because I support what the government did; I am doing that because it is my conviction Qwaider, you should know me better than that. I have no benefit in supporting the government, but it is normal to find supporters like me as you find opposers like your good self ... so we don't have to see the same thing the same way ...

I respect your analysis however I do not agree with it and this is also not punishable by any law I guess ...

If they had stated their mind about someone who is just someone .. maybe that would have been fine ... but as we all know; Zarqawi was an enemy to each and every one of us .. and one who betrayed his country and its people, one who threatened to bomb many places in Jordan and did so indeed ... how can you take praising him publicly by people's representatives (no other) so lightly and so not wrong if I might say ...

Regarding Fatawa, they can issue fatwa for anything except deciding who is martyr and who is not because only God can decide that .. or this is also arguable?

#14
Qwaider
Said
On: 8/8/2006 12:06:40 PM

I'm not upset Khalidah at all, I just find your argument totally illogical! That has nothing to do with my respect to you or your opinion. But it's illogical
You keep confusing what they did, with what Zarqawi did. To all of us, he was a criminal. That's well established
As for how people view him. That's their damn business!
They view him as Martyr, their business! Not the government, and certainly has nothing to do with the judicial system! It's ridiculous! that's all
And Khalidah, Since the representatives have stated their minds, they are certainly not alone. In any case, I feel that you're trying to shift the issue to these representatives trying to recruit people to do the same thing as Zarqawi. Which is not true. They stated their opinions. And Should be respected

If we don't respect ELECTED representatives, no matter how much we disagree with them, who do we respect?

#15
Husams
Said
On: 8/8/2006 12:29:41 PM

Khalidah, I know it sounds disturbing to accept such a talk from an elected representative, but that is all what democracy about, accepting opinions you don’t agree with. “The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins”. What Zarqawy did is wrong and punishable to the extreme, but people should not be punished for their opinions in a civilized country.

What are you saying means if the elected representatives talked defending gays rights they should be arrested because they represent people, but if they are just activist then its ok! Do you think if viva magazine wrote a consolatory article for Al-zarqawy, it should be banned or not? Do you consider that a freedom of speech or not?

You despise the opinion of those men, so as I, but that doesn’t mean I want to jail them because I just hate their opinion! And call it democracy! As Qwaider said, it’s just illogical.

#16
Khalidah
Said
On: 8/8/2006 12:31:28 PM

And those elected representatives should know better than to praise the country enemy in public ... they should respect where the system stands because they chose to be a part of the same system when they entered the elections ... there is no excuse, especially when it could have been their children and relatives who died in the hotels bombings last year!

I am not confusing anything with anything Qwaider ... you don't see what they did as wrong, but if in the audience that was listening carefully to their speeches, believed every word they said, were convinced with the argument and finally saw this Zarqawi as a martyr and a hero ... years later, from this same audience comes one or two other zarqawis that believe they will be martyrs after all .. and any one who disagrees with them is kafer and supposed to be killed ... isn't this a possible consequence for the irrational thing these representatives did???

When you praise a terrorist and give him a martyr degree in front of people who believe you; you are justifying his actions and this is very very dangerous ... I am surprised you don't see that .. and more surprised that you condemn the government for taking action to put a limit on this ...

#17
Khalidah
Said
On: 8/8/2006 12:38:35 PM

Husams,

Zarqawi's case is completely different ... when they defend gay rights and someone decides to become gay after that .. this does not affect the whole country ... but we are talking about terrorism .. big difference ..

If VIVA or any other magazine praised Zarqawi the same way these guys did, I will be the first one to condemn them and fight them and demand their punishment ...

These are completely different arguments ya jama3a .. talking about homosexuality is not like praising terrorists ..

#18
Qwaider
Said
On: 8/8/2006 12:57:54 PM

Khalidah for the 100000th time ... I said, I find their actions despicable, and disgusting .. yet THAT IS NOT A LAW! Why can't you get that?
It's simple, These people have the right to believe what they want!
They can call him what ever they want, and it's NOT RIGHT for the court to put a cap on their freedom in this way!
It's ridiculous!!
Lets not argue about the same point over and over and over. Find a different argument. This one has been refuted a 100 times already.

#19
Khalidah
Said
On: 8/8/2006 1:03:06 PM

And still you did not convince me ...

I am glad that the government took action about this ... They have sided with the country enemy and they should bare the consequences!

#20
Batir Wardam
Said
On: 8/8/2006 1:04:34 PM

I have to re-state that the deputees committed a big mistake and should be punished. For me their stay in the 5 stars jafr prison for 3 months was enough. My problem here is not the punishment and crime but the PROCESS of the court, where as the defence lawyers rightly stated there has been a deviation from justice. Both Abu fares and Abu Sokkar are deputees who have street and media support but what about an ordinary citizens who voices an opinion in a corruption case, and then is prosecuted in front of the state security court. How can he defend his right? The crdibility of the judicial process should not be diminished at any cost. The two deputees deserve the punishment, but Jordanians deserve a better justice system.

#21
Qwaider
Said
On: 8/8/2006 1:08:21 PM

Khalidah, I'm not trying to convince you... keep applauding the government! These people are not the enemy... and your last comment is extremely extremely prejudice and intolerant!
We just like to "Tabbel And Zammer" to everything the government does.... you know what they are wrong, and they're dragging us more and more into 3rd world status
and the joke is on all of us
it compromises the credibility of the judicial system
it's easily influenced
and is directed for political gain
and not in the best interest of Jordan in the long run

#22
Qwaider
Said
On: 8/8/2006 1:17:34 PM

Batir, you might have your remarks about the process, my objections are not exactly the same, but I do agree with you on the process

Lets call it what it really is. A political issue.. and they're being arrested based on it! But Inventing a law and a punishment for something that is NOT illegal ... is just ridiculous
My feelings is that they're being made an example of. So that no one would dare say or do anything.
As far as I know:
1) they didn't conspire against the regime
2) They didn't recruit anyone
3) They didn't commit any terrorism
4) They didn't support terrorism or terrorist acts
5) they didn't commit treason

Why are they being held again?

#23
Khalidah
Said
On: 8/8/2006 1:22:06 PM

My dear friend ...

I am not attabbel w azzammer for the government ... these are my own convictions and it is the way I felt ever since I heard about what they did .. even before they were arrested or prosecuted ... and that's why I am glad an action was taken

#24
Qwaider
Said
On: 8/8/2006 1:26:03 PM

Great Khalidah, and I highly respect your view, but this is not the law.
Twisting the law for political reasons are signs of corruption that we all as Jordanians should stand firmly against

#25
Neverland
Said
On: 8/8/2006 1:55:34 PM

Later Qweider :)

#26
Qwaider
Said
On: 8/8/2006 1:57:25 PM

Mabrook el khotbeh Neverland ... Tihree b3ara2 el 3afyeh

#27
theone
Said
On: 8/8/2006 1:57:27 PM

أحد أعضاء هيئة المحكمة، المؤلفة من ثلاثة قضاة أحدهم قاض مدني، قرار تجريم النائبين أبو فارس وأبو السكر. واعتبر القاضي المخالف، وهو العضو المدني، أن أقوال النائبين أبو فارس وأبو السكر "حرية شخصية ولاينطبق عليه نص المادة 150 عقوبات التي ادانتهما بهما المحكمة". وطالب في قرار الحكم بإعلان "عدم مسؤولية" النائبين، متفقا مع الأكثرية "عدم مسؤولية" النائب الحوراني

this is from alghad newspaper. el edaneh kanat 2 la wa7ad. el 2 home qoda 3askryeen. wa bs

#28
Qwaider
Said
On: 8/8/2006 1:59:28 PM

Reminds me of the 7adeeth: of 3 Judges 2 in hell and one in heaven. I wonder which one is going to heaven

#29
thecaller
Said
On: 8/8/2006 2:02:02 PM

asalam 3alaykom,
Is this something you usually say to brides in jordan or what??!!
da 3ady ya3ny??!!
don't you think it's rude??!!

#30
Qwaider
Said
On: 8/8/2006 2:04:45 PM

theCaller... lazem tonkoshi... you can't let it go..
it's good wishes...

#31
thecaller
Said
On: 8/8/2006 2:09:27 PM

Ana mesh bankosh wala zeft..bas 3ayza a3raf da folklore ordony walla eh!!
w ba3deen nam ..nam ba2a..
3aref emta beykoon enoom 3ebada??!!:):)

#32
Khalidah
Said
On: 8/8/2006 2:47:33 PM

Really? they would go to hell for convicting them? Is this another one of your fatawi?

The caller; no this is not common in Jordan ... this is just Qwaider's version of congratulations

Neverland, 1000 mabrook my dear ... 3o2bal el far7ah el kobra :)