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« LOL! Can't get enough of the Karaoke DrQwaiderTweeter breaks 700 in 40 days »

On believers...

  • By: Qwaider

  • On:Monday, November 02, 2009 7:19:06 PM
  • In:Thoughts
  • Viewed: (5419) times

    • Currently 4.7/5 Stars.
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    Rated 4.7/5 stars (111 votes cast) Thanks for your vote!

    Believers are not "trapped mind" to be liberated, trapped souls with no guidance, ignorant humans with no knowledge, "closed minds" sinking in the ocean of the dark ages, or simply were born believers and don't know better...

    Most of the modern day believers are people who choose to believe.

    Denying people this choice, is the epitome of tyranny. Ridiculing THEM because of it, is as bad as any other form of racism and the complete opposite of all modern liberties

    Only person who would find denouncing God "liberating" is a person who is trying to break from the confines of morals guidelines, and ethical rules that come with religion. Don't mean to disrespect anyone. But if this is the only way an adulterous can live with himself. Or a liar can learn to tolerate himself. Then trust me. You don't know how forgiving God is.

    Perhaps you're gay, and you find no place for you in any faith. Could it also be liberating for you to denounce god just to "embrace" your sexual preference/choice/whatever you wanna call it? For many it might be. But the truth is, to sin is HUMAN, and very natural. We sin ALL THE TIME. Denouncing our God doesn't make us any better. Doesn't make the sin go away either. Some people choose to continue their favorite sin. All while knowing exactly what they chose

    "And why seek forgiveness, I'm free, I don't believe"... Ahhh, but we're not free. We never are. If we escape the religious rules, we have the social and ethical ones. If we escape those, there rules of nature that no one free himself from...

    This universe is governed by rules, we can't exist without them. The more rules you follow, the more civilized, some would argue.

    Sure etiquette is mostly optional, although it's encouraged. If you look at it, it's a set of rules on top of rules.

    I don't want to start sounding like Dawkins and box every Atheist into this definition. But if you find yourself in this box, then you're departing from your inner belief, to absolutely worse position. It's like running from the police to escape a $5 fine.

    Look at yourself, reflect upon it. Ask the WHY questions, instead of the HOW. Even though most of these "HOW" questions have not been explained satisfactorily yet. But I am confident that eventually they will.

    WHY did the universe get created?
    WHY did life spark?
    WHY intelligence?

    To feel liberated, means that someone was burdened by the morality of their choices. Therefore, deep inside, they are still believers. Even if they think they have been liberated!

    Other Memories Documented on November 02
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    • #1
    • Ahmad
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 11/2/2009 9:30:00 PM
    • SpamScore=[1.49]
    "WHY did the universe get created?
    WHY did life spark?
    WHY intelligence?"

    Why bother asking an atheist these questions does they care why the universe was created of course no since they believe everything is explained by science and of course science can't answer that question so they wouldn't think of it without their science


    Islam is the answer and has and will always be the answer and it's laws and rules are the one that most fit humans not the rules of if you have money then get a good lawyer and clear yourself even though you are guilty
    • #2
    • Qwaider
    • Windows Chrome  Browser
    • Said
    • On: 11/2/2009 10:09:36 PM
    • SpamScore=[-40.98]
    Ahmad
    We're all humans, we have the same feelings and see the same values. We count discard a part of humanity because they think or believe differently. We should all be tolerant and accept each other. If not also respect other people's beliefs. It's a basic human right for people to follow what they believe.
    I continue this effort, because I respect everyone. I will not brand a person ignorant because he doesn't see my side of the argument.

    Sadly, many religious figure work very hard to push people away. Instead of bridging the gap between all of us
    • #3
    • Eman
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 11/2/2009 10:28:23 PM
    • SpamScore=[5.33]
    I’ll try to comment with a “politically correct” attitude, so that this doesn’t get out of hand, although I don’t believe that applies to religion. It almost seems………..no, it actually does feel like religious people are the ones defending themselves and their beliefs these days. If I accept the fact that you choose not to believe, than why not allow me the same privilege? You would think that the more liberal one is, the more accepting they should be to others, unfortunately, that is not the case anymore.
    Non-believers need justification to what they see as morally accepted in any and every aspect of life, so they choose to deny the fact that there is a God.  They don’t want to appear as hypocrites and say that there is a God, but they choose not to follow His “rules and regulations” so they take the easier path and simply deny His existence.
    It is funny how they seem to think that it is easier to worship an “imaginary” God and follow His laws, than to deny his existence and do what we please……….call me dumb, but doesn’t common sense tell us that by not following laws, we are taking the easy way out?
    But who am I to talk, I'm just a religious human being defending my belief in God.....does anyone see the irony?
    • #4
    • Chris
    • Apple Mac Safari Browser
    • Said
    • On: 11/3/2009 2:29:41 AM
    • SpamScore=[1]
    Come on, most people were RAISED to believe and chastised if they didn't! Ridiculing non-believers is as bad as any form of racism and against liberty-take that!

    Universe created?
    Life sparked?
    Good question, but one thing I know, YOU don't know, you just say.

    Tell me a moral action or statement made by a believer that cant be made by a non-believer-you can't.
    Tell me a horrible action or statement made by a believer because of his belief-easy!
    • #5
    • Qwaider
    • Windows Chrome  Browser
    • Said
    • On: 11/3/2009 3:40:45 AM
    • SpamScore=[-41]
    Hi Chris
    Thank you for your comment
    Regarding your first sentence. I agree with you. Many were raised to believe. But once a person hits teenage they start thinking for their own. From that point onward they choose what they want to believe. Apparently, most stick with what they believe. Many more revert after a period of self discovery.
    I also and agree with you, ridiculing anyone for their beliefs is unacceptable. I really thank you for extending it in that form

    As for your questions, I can't tell you one thing a believer can do better than anyone else. Believers are not better (or worse) than anyone else. We're all human and we're all the same.
    • #6
    • Wesam
    • Windows Firefox Browser
    • Said
    • On: 11/3/2009 4:19:28 AM
    • SpamScore=[1]
    Seriously? believers are complaining about atheists denying them the right to believe?? that's the most ridiculous thing I've heard in days, especially coming from a Muslim, who's religion calls on non-Muslims, Christians or Jews to be slaughtered (and please don't tell me it doesn't because we both know it does).

    Ridiculing people who believe is unacceptable?? do you ever hear what Muslim clerics say about non-believers, what kind of names they call them...on live television?

    And once someone is a teenager they can either choose to remain believers or revert??? do you know what would happen to me if I went on television and said I'm not a Muslim anymore, and I don't believe in God anymore, I would be killed (just like your religion says I should) and again don't tell me it doesn't because we both know it does.

    Its 4am now, I'm too tired to write an organised long post.
    • #7
    • Qwaider
    • Windows Chrome  Browser
    • Said
    • On: 11/3/2009 5:48:29 AM
    • SpamScore=[-42.53]
    Wesam,
    I admit, many religious figures have misrepresented faiths. But that doesn't mean that there's no truth to what faith brings. Even when taking things from a complete scientific perspective.

    Most modern countries don't have any problem with people declaring their atheism. Syria as you know is one of them. But again, peoples experiences differ
    • #8
    • Chris
    • Apple Mac Safari Browser
    • Said
    • On: 11/3/2009 9:02:42 AM
    • SpamScore=[-0.02]
    Thanks for the pleasant reply Qwaider. This is the big dilemma though , I and most non-believers don't mind if you eat halal or kosher 100% of the time, pray five times a day or go to church every sunday, live a super strict religious life-etc. If these things help you, good. It just doesn't work the other way around for many religious people. If I don't live by their rules, I get judged an acted upon accordingly (unfortunately for some violently). Where is the bridge between? Peace.
    • #9
    • bambam
    • Windows Firefox Browser
    • Said
    • On: 11/3/2009 9:45:08 AM
    • SpamScore=[-0.19]
    You know what, you are pointless, the person who can't let this issue go is you. Just accept the fact that not everyone can make your choice.
    What actually disgusts me is this idea that a religion is morally superior than everything else, based on what? which interpretation?
    Actually there is one thing that is absolutely true about religion, its divisive and when it gets political it marginalizes people. Don't reply with the islamic golden age crap again, i'm tired of hearing the same old story over and over again from people who don't know the first thing about how things worked over there and what was their take on islam back in those days.
    So stop throwing those empty arguments and insulting people for their beliefs whatever they are. I don't see you going around telling christians that you believe they are going to hell and you believe that their version of religion is wrong, so extend the same courtesy to those who question their believes. Is that hard?
    and your last sentence is laughable, since religion if anything discourages owning up to your choices, for its destiny, it could be the devil, it could be the jealous people, it could be god testing you and any other million reason of why things happened one way and not the other. Because you are just a pawn in that game, so enjoy your time in it and keep it to yourself. Atleast i have the decency to say i don't know when i really "don't know" and thats the answer to your questions. If you have an answer thats anything other than that you better hit the books or whatever and stop being so high and mighty since again you have proved when it comes to the subject you have absolutely no argument.
    • #10
    • Qwaider
    • Windows Chrome  Browser
    • Said
    • On: 11/3/2009 10:22:38 AM
    • SpamScore=[-42.55]
    Chris
    Thanks again for your reply.
    Most believers also, don't care if someone believed or not. It's the fact that many of them gets the condescending treatment (case in point, read Bambam's comment above and you'll know what I mean)
    As I said, many religious zealots have misrepresented their religion and cause more harm than good. Even when their intentions were good. Ultimately they did the very thing that they're not supposed to do which is judge people by their own standards. Something that pushed people away more than anything
    The bridge is there, and believe it or not, I believe it's science and our mutual future together. We're stuck with each other and we need to find ways to make it work. There is no other choice
    • #11
    • Qwaider
    • Windows Chrome  Browser
    • Said
    • On: 11/3/2009 10:23:08 AM
    • SpamScore=[-41.57]
    Bambam
    Actually, YOU and your comment are pointless if not rude. I shouldn't replying your tactless comment, and wait until you grow up and learn some manners then perhaps I will bother myself replying to you. But just out of my good nature, I will tolerate your insolence and lack of manners and answer you. Feel free to feel upset and tigleb wijhak if you don't like it.

    First of all, it's my choice if I want to let it go or not. My choice. And I choose not to. If that bothers you. Then find the nearest wall, bang your head until it doesn't bother you anymore.

    I believe that people can make choices at any given time. We choose everything and pay the consequences of our choices. For example, I chose to answer you as a consequence to your ill manners while commenting. Perhaps I can teach you a thing or two about manners. Oh I forgot, you know all about it. Yet you fail to show any of it
    You insist on turning this to religion, I will have to say, yes, Religions have a far superior MORAL CODE. It's mandatory for believers, optional for non. So if someone is really GREAT as an atheist. He's doing it out of his own great self, but he doesn't have to. I think this is simple enough for a 6 year old. You can understand it too.
    Belief, Could actually be uniting. When all else fails, people can turn to that and say. We believe in the same things and let things go. Can you tell me with Authority that Atheism unites people in ANYWAY?
    As for Marginalizing people, well, sometimes there are things that are larger than life itself. People could certainly become marginal then. It's not all black and white.
    My arguments are not empty, nor are they insulting. But you insist on feeling insulted. In such a case I would be happy to insult you in more appropriate ways. But trust me, if I wanted to be insulting you would know for sure.
    Who said I don't tell Christians that I, although I respect their version of Christianity, believe that mine is the "more accurate" version. So does every sect in Christianity itself. But the point here is really not Christianity. This is where belief unites us. When interpretations separate us. I also don't believe they are going to hell, nor can anyone tell you that they are, lunatics excluded. Although most Atheists are. But, oh I forgot, Atheists don't believe in hell in the first place so WHY worry?
    Now I will say this. I COMPLETELY respect beliefs of atheists. I disagree, but I respect it. People are free to believe whatever they want. You would have understood that from my article above had you actually read it. But you're not here to read or to argue, you're here just to criticize and be rude. So enjoy what you're getting
    Your ignorance shines when you speak of how religion discourages people of owning up. Ever heard of repentance? Can you even read? Or your hate to belief and religion has blinded you so much to the point you just spend your time staking words and accusations that are completely baseless!!?
    Yes, there are external factors that influence our decisions. But if there was no choice, then how the hell will there be punishment or reward! You really make me feel sorry for you.
    Well, every time you say, "I don't know". You have done well. Most believers say, "We don't know, God only knows all" Allahu A3alam. At least we have the modesty to say, we're only human, we will never know everything, god is the all knowing.
    As I said, again, my argument is solid. While your barking is nothing more than empty echos of the hate you have inside you.
    Let go of your hate... And learn some manners when you talk to people...
    Or forever, hold your peace
    • #12
    • bambam
    • Windows Firefox Browser
    • Said
    • On: 11/3/2009 1:30:01 PM
    • SpamScore=[-0.21]
    LOL ... nuff said
    • #13
    • bambam
    • Windows Firefox Browser
    • Said
    • On: 11/3/2009 1:37:26 PM
    • SpamScore=[-0.23]
    On the other hand Chris if you check Qwaider's blog you'll understand that his answer to you is slightly disingenuous. What qwaider believes (not uniquely) is that his system of belief is best, and that system stipulates manipulating every aspect of a person's life and hence ... and there lies the problem with an empty argument. your stance changes based on the circumstance and the person you are telling your opinion to.
    • #14
    • bambam
    • Windows Firefox Browser
    • Said
    • On: 11/3/2009 1:42:24 PM
    • SpamScore=[0.75]
    just to save you the trouble with finding an example... its the comment below mine over here
    http://blog.sweetestmemories.com/default.asp?Display=1696#C28092
    • #15
    • Qwaider
    • Windows Chrome  Browser
    • Said
    • On: 11/3/2009 4:35:18 PM
    • SpamScore=[-42.61]
    You are dense, aren't you? Well, OF COURSE I believe what I believe is best. I wouldn't have believed it if it wasn't !!! DOH!
    And an atheist also believes what he believes is best! Or he wouldn't have believed it in the first place!

    When are you going to grow up and present arguments like adults? That's if you really had a point and not shooting every other possible ulterior motive
    • #16
    • nobody
    • Linux OS Firefox Browser
    • Said
    • On: 11/3/2009 6:18:28 PM
    • SpamScore=[-0.16]
    Bambam, give it up. Quaider is trapped in his religious programming.

    "When are you going to grow up and present arguments like adults?"

    Quaider, adults don't believe in imaginary friends. And your insulting, condescending, replies illustrate your own childishness. Not to mention your lack of reasoning skills....
    • #17
    • Qwaider
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 11/3/2009 6:44:56 PM
    • SpamScore=[-41.09]

    Nobody, I think if you looked with no prejudice. You'll know I didn't insult first. It's a natural response. Who's really trapped? who's really intolerant to the other?

    • #18
    • Logical Dreamer
    • Windows Firefox Browser
    • Said
    • On: 11/8/2009 3:05:00 PM
    • SpamScore=[1.5]
    Qwaider, obviously you're not really exposed to the science of believe, and why people believe and why religions are created and for what reasons.  reading more about human brain and the Cognitive neuroscience of Emotions will help put things more into perspective for you. there's a lot of interesting videos on Richard Dawkins youtube page and material available online discussing religion from a scientific point of view.
    but then again alot of people would rather believe in imaginary deities than for once pick up a text book and think. REALLY THINK.
    Polytheism-->Monotheism--->Atheism.
    • #19
    • Qwaider
    • Windows Chrome  Browser
    • Said
    • On: 11/8/2009 6:42:54 PM
    • SpamScore=[-42.84]
    Thank you Logical Dreamer, for your comment.
    The thing is, what gives you, or Dawkins, the impression that believers don't think, really think? And come up with the final conclusion that God has to exist. When science is showing us everyday that there are things that could scientifically be explained with God.
    I'm sorry, but it's insulting of many Atheists to keep thinking that they have somehow stumbled upon a higher level of thinking or consciousness, than believers. It is unproven either way and people who THINK really hard and then CHOOSE either way are absolutely equivalent without any side claiming scientific superiority.
    • #20
    • Logical Dreamer
    • Windows Firefox Browser
    • Said
    • On: 11/10/2009 9:39:13 PM
    • SpamScore=[0.49]
    "things that could be scientifically explained with god"
    both scientist and atheists never claimed to know the answers to life's greatest questions. but the thing is religion never provided much needed explanations either. compared to modern science and all the ways  it affected our life. it seems the only real way to approach life and understand it from a أنفيد perspective is through Science. You don't need to be a Muslim or a Christian or a Jew or a Hindu to understand science. and that's why Atheism is on a different level from religion.

    Qwaider I've noticed you keep mixing between religion and the believe in god. I don't know on what basis you do that but you sound more like an agnostic than a person who's absolutely sure of his own religion to me.
    • #21
    • Qwaider
    • Windows Chrome  Browser
    • Said
    • On: 11/11/2009 12:54:40 AM
    • SpamScore=[-41.33]
    Thanks again Logical Dreamer for your comment.
    Are you claiming that nothing good ever came from Religions? Nothing at all? Not a single thing? Come on now, religions, just like any other forms of control, have contributed in creation of the human civilization more than anything else. It's these that actually gave enough calm climate for thought and enlightenment to even have a chance to exist. Instead of anarchy and the "rule of the jungle". Yes, humans could have potentially discovered all of the ethics and moral codes on their own. But after what? How long would it take for humans to rise above their animalistic instincts, long enough, to create, invent and share. That's only taking the social aspect of the impact of religions in general.

    I love your last paragraph, and I would like to congratulate you on being so smart and perceptive. The truth is, faith doesn't come without doubt. The opposite of faith is certainty, and no fool can ever claim to be certain in these issues. (Even Dawkins himself gives it a "Percentage") Unlike many dumb sheepishly following blind Atheists. Who believe completely, devotedly and blindly that there's absolutely without a shred of doubt a God. In fact, this is a trait among self-proclaimed-coolness-following-atheists. True, and wise atheists still have doubts. Just like true believers, or scientists.  They will explicitly say, we have doubt! That healthy doubt that keeps us all going, and moving forward.

    Religion and belief in God are not the same, although, many religions implicitly mandate belief to join. But as we know, it’s not a requirement most of the time, nor do people adhere to what religions say most of the time.
    What I hate is blind devotion to ANYTHING. Be it religion, or lack of as in Atheism, or nationality, a person or even a sport. We have minds to think, and decide for ourselves. We don’t need to cancel our minds at any point. Some religions ask that of its followers. Others, no matter how they emphasize that people shouldn’t, still have followers who do. So go figure

    Anyway, thanks again for your lovely comment
    You too can have your Memories Documented

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