Why Hamas can never be defeated

By: Qwaider

On:Tuesday, January 13, 2009 12:31:29 AM
In:Thoughts
Viewed: (5032) times

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This is the fourth article I start, before quickly deciding that I really can't publish. So I'm going to talk about why Hamas is never going to be defeated

What people don't realize is that Hamas has become part of the very fabric of the Gazan society. It's no longer a movement, a party. It's an Ideology.

Conveniently, many of the western media outlets refer to all the resistance in Gaza as Hamas. What they don't know is that only ONE faction is actually loyal to Hamas the political movement. While the rest are daughters of Fatah, the democratic liberation front of Palestine and others. As you can see, one "secular" and one even left wing.

What Israel is doing is what Hanan Ashrawi eloquently said, Israel is battering the struggling moderates and completely removing any level of credibility of any of the peace camp. This war has dealt this camp a deadly blow, while extremism (way beyond Hamas) is finding fertile grounds

Sadly, the simplistic superficial view of the whole situation in the western media is also not helping. As it portrays Hamas as being bent on destroying Israel when in fact, Hamas is mostly focused on allowing the people of Palestine to live and survive after suffering occupation and the corruption of PA officials.

Hamas, as an ideology, no matter what the outcome of the whole Israeli war, will continue to live, and most likely thrive as more and more people view positively and more importantly morally the stance of Hamas and their romantic defiant approach in the face of the odds.

The interesting part is that unlike what happened in Lebanon in 2006 where internal parties blamed Hezbollah for the war. Hamas doesn't suffer from these voices. Unless you consider Abbas to be part of the Palestinian people or a even a worthy representative after he was weaken and dismissed mostly by the Israeli arrogance.

With this overwhelming support and protection for Hamas. With the selection of key leaders that are from the people, by the people and for the people [where have I heard that before? Or more importantly, where do we see that anywhere else in the Arab world?], anyway, with such leadership that values and affectionately bonds with the population. It's almost impossible to defeat Hamas...

Unless you completely annihilate the whole population of Gaza... And believe me, that is a scenario that has crossed the minds of many Israelis throughout history

Memories....

#1
عاشق الحفر والمغارات
Said
On: 1/13/2009 3:58:19 AM
SpamScore=[2]

اعتقد ان قادة حماس لن يتعرفوا على مدينة غزة بعد أن يخرجوا من جحورهم...يبدوا ان الجميع استدل من صدام على طريق الجحور والحفر ويبدوا انها ستكون ظاهرة جديدة لقادة امة تضاف الى الظاهرة الصوتية التي يتميزون بها ...ومن نصر الى نصر ...

كام سؤال علي الماشي وياريت حد يجاوبني 1- هو اسماعيل هنية خطيب مسجد في غزة أم رئيس حكومة وسياسي ؟ 2- كيف ينظر العالم الغربي الي العالم العربي بعد خطبة هنية ؟ 3- هل ما يقوم به مسلحي غزة مقاومة ضد محتل أم جهاد إسلامي ؟ 4- هل مازال الكلام يدور حول " وإن أفنيت غزة بالكامل " ؟

اذا كان تدمير غزه و قتل 1000 و جرح 5000 و تهجير عشرات الآلاف من سكانها نصر مؤزر فإننا نتمني أن لا ننتصر و أن نُهزم هزيمة تقصف فيها طائراتنا تل أبيب و ايلات و ندمر فيها مستوطناتهم و نقتل فيها الاف الاسرائيليين و نجرح عشرات الالاف و نهجرهم جميعا للبلاد التي أتوا منها

1) توقيت الخطاب يأتى مع قرب نضوج ننتائج المبادره المصريه التى كانوا يرفضوها بتكبر عجيب والأن قبلوها مع ما لاحظوه من تذمر رجل الشارع الغزاوى من كم الدمار الذى اصابه دون طائل فلا غزه كانت مستقله وتم غزوها من قبل الصهاينه بل كانت محتله ومازالت محتله وكا ما قامت به حماس هو مغامره غير محسوبه أحرقت معها الاخضر واليابس .
2) يقول اسماعيل هنيه بكلمته انهم يسيرون بطريق المواجهه العسكريه وطريق الدبلوماسيه ( أى التفاوض.... ولاحظوا أنهم يلعنون كل من تفاوض مع اسرائيل والأن يتفاوضون معهم ليس للجلاء أو التحرير ولكن للتهدئه..أى تفاوض مخزى هذا الذى يتحدث عنه) من أجل رحيل الصهاينه عن غزه ( واليهود كانوا ومازالوا محتلين لكل فلسطين وليس لغزه فقط) التى أراه يتحدث عنها وكأنها دوله مستقله تم غزوها من قبل جيوش معاديه والأصل أن اليهود يعيدون انتشارهم بغزه المحتله....صح النوم يا سيد هنيه.
3) يتحد بكلمته عن صمود شعب غزه فأى صمود يقصد لو كانت حربا سيترتب عليها تحرير فلسطين لفهمنا معن الصمود الذى يتحدث عنه أما صمود شعب غزه امام قتل الأبرياء فقط لمجرد أن تظل قيادات حماس على قيد الحياه حتى ولو على جثث الشهداء ممن ليس لهم أى جريره .
4) واضح من كلمه هنيه أن القائمين على أمر حماس ادركوا أنهم مقضى عليهم لا محاله ولذا بدأوا يتقبلون ما جاء بالمبادره خوفا على انفسهم وليس رحمه بالاف القتلى والجرحى ويحاولون أن يخدعوا الناس من جديد بدعاوى الانتصار الزائف الذى بدأوا ينسجون له الحجج فبعد كل القتل والتدمير الذى لحق بغزه سنراهم بعد انتهاء مهتم الجيش الصهيونى سنراهم يهبون مع ابواقهم المأجوره ليدعوا أن العدو (أقصد المحتل الموجود فعليا) لم يستطع أن يقهرهم مثلهم فى هذا الادعاء كمثل رجلان يتصارعان أحدهما شديد القوه والأخر شديد الضعف حيث يقوم الرجل الشديد بتكسير عظام الرجل الضعيف ( كما هو متوقع ) ومع ذلك يخرج الرجل الضعيف ليقول أنا المنتصر ..واذا سألته كيف تعتبر نفسك منتصرا بارغم من كل ما بك من تكسير واصابات....ستجده يقول لك نعم أنا المتصر لأنه لم يقتلنى بل قام بتكسرى فقط......هذا هو نفس المنطق الذى تقيس به حماس ومن قبلها حزب الله حسايات النصر والهزيمه.

بعد كل هذا الخراب والدمار والاف الجرحى والقتلى للشعب الفلسطينى والمقاومة قابعة فى مخابئها تحت الارض يخرج علينا الشيخ اسماعيل ليزف لنا بشرى ان الانتصار قادم -نعم اننا ندعوا لكم ان ينصركم اللة ولكن يجب ان تكون واقعى ياشيخ ولا تضحك على نفسك وعلينا فان كل ما نراه امامنا ان اسرائيل تصول وتجول فى ارض غزة من شمالها الى جنوبها ومن شرقها الى غربها تدمر وتخرب وتقتل وتتحكم وتفعل ما تشاء فى شعبك وبعد كل هذا ياشيخ تقول لنا وانت فى الجحر والمخباء انانتصاركم اصبح اقرب ما يكون ربما تكون تقصد ان خروجكم من الجحور هو اقرب ما يكون بعد انتهاء العدوان بالضغط من الراى العام وبتضحيات الشعب المسكين واننى استغرب انه من المفروض ان يكون الشعب فى الحروب فى المخابىء يحتمى بها وان يكون المقاومين خارجها يدافعون عن شعبهم ولكنكم قد جعلتوا المعادلة مقلوبة فلا تظن يا شيخ انك يمكن ان تضحك علينا لاننا ليس اغبياء وان كنا نتمنى لكم الانتصار الحقيقى وليس المزيف التى بدات تروج له

#2
Qwaider
Said
On: 1/13/2009 5:26:16 AM
SpamScore=[-47.53]

يا عاشق الحفر.. عقبال ما نشوفك في واحدة.. و من نصر الى نصر
اوّلا اسماعيل هنية، رئيس منتخب ديمقراطيا... و لا يجرؤ اي حاكم عربي على ان يتساوى مع قدر حذائة، لكن مع هذا فانه يشارك الفلسطينيين في كل شيء
ثانيا .. لو ان اسرائيل دولة تحتر نفسها لما لجأت الى الإغتيالات السياسية. اظن لا يزاود على هذا الكلام الا خائن ابن ستّين خائن. بالإضافة الى ان آلة الإغتيالات لا تستهدف الشخص لوحده بل تتعداه الى كل عائلته

ثالثا اسماعيل هنية رئيس، و خطيب و مواطن فلسطيني شريف.
المقاومة لا تتميز عن الجهاد.. و لم يصدر منه في اي يوم كلام عن "و ان افنيت غزة بالكامل" و لكنه صدر عن مجرمي الحرب الإسرائيليين على مد ى الزمن

لست بصدد الدفاع عن هنية و لا عن غيره. لكن حتى بكل اخطاؤة فنعاله او نعال نصرالله يساوي الف من الخونة و المنبطحين. فما هزمنا الا المتخاذلين و الخونة و الفئة القذرة التي باعت نفسها و حاضرها و مستقبلها من اجل حفنة دولارات.. لكن التاريخ لا يذكر فيشي الا و النعال و الخيانة تذيّل اسمه

و الأهم ان لا احد احسن من احد، فكل القادة العرب، لا استثني احد، ينامون في القصور، يحرسهم الجنود، و المخابرات، و ازلام الدولة و عملائها.. و لا يعني هذا و الله الشجاعة. امّا من كان مع شعبه في خندق واحد.. فهو بلا شك اشرف ممن انبطح وان عاش في جحر برتبة قصر

#3
عاشق الحفر والمغارات
Said
On: 1/13/2009 3:33:44 PM
SpamScore=[0.49]

اعيد واكرر:

اذا كان تدمير غزه و قتل 1000 و جرح 5000 و تهجير عشرات الآلاف من سكانها نصر مؤزر فإننا نتمني أن لا ننتصر و أن نُهزم هزيمة تقصف فيها طائراتنا تل أبيب و ايلات و ندمر فيها مستوطناتهم و نقتل فيها الاف الاسرائيليين و نجرح عشرات الالاف و نهجرهم جميعا للبلاد التي أتوا منها

اكيد رح تشوفني بحفرة... بس الحفرة اللي رح الم فيها كل جماعة الفصائل واشكالك فيها و ادير عليكم كاز و "ادفيكم"..هلا بالمقاومة

#4
hamede
Said
On: 1/13/2009 5:51:59 PM
SpamScore=[-1.49]

يبدو أن زمرة ما في فتح قد اختارت أن تنحرف نهائياً عن خط النضال الوطني الفلسطيني، وتدخل في باب المكاسب الشخصية والمجموعاتية، ولو على حساب مواقف فتح ونضالها التاريخي، وعلى حساب المطالب الوطنية الفلسطينية

#5
Qwaider
Said
On: 1/13/2009 6:21:30 PM
SpamScore=[-38.18]

عاشق الحفر... مزبلة التاريخ سألت عنّك

#6
Nizar
Said
On: 1/13/2009 7:31:13 PM
SpamScore=[-0.85]

Hamas must die in order for Palestinians to survive.

#7
Qwaider
Said
On: 1/13/2009 7:47:11 PM
SpamScore=[-37.79]

Nizar,
Hamas IS the Palestinians. You can't remove the heart, brain, soul of a person without killing them. That is what Hamas has become to the Palestinians
Hamas became an ideology, ironically. This was first introduced by the Israelis themselves. Now, everyone is Hamas. All the resistance is Hamas
Hamas cannot die. Will not die, and anyone who simplistically thinks that they will just "disappear" is doesn't know anything about resistance movements and their history

Hamas isn't destroying Gaza, ISRAEL is destroying Gaza. WHEN is a simple concept like that going to EVER get through the thick skull of some defeatists.. I have no idea!

In the sad reality that we live in these days. Ironically, Hamas is the only source of hope after EVERYTHING has been proven to fail

Today, New York times, Wall Street Journal and (Hanan Ashrwai)above ALL concluded that what Israel is doing is WEAKINING the peace camp. And strengthening Hamas EVEN if hamas got defeated and beaten into a pulp! I “just” happen to agree with that line of thought

#8
Nizar
Said
On: 1/13/2009 8:07:46 PM
SpamScore=[-0.87]

Trust me, I have heard enough voices and opinions to understand what you mean, but Hamas is not the answer to the situation, people must realize this and separate themselves from Hamas in order to survive.

Hamas is also guilty of the destruction of Gaza, it has allowed it, it is giving Israel the reasons to destroy Gaza and it's people, the thing with Hamas is that they don't accept reality.

They don't accept that they are an unorganized organization that is poorly financially funded, that is built up of just a couple of hundred badly trained militants that are equipped with AK47s and short ranged badly assembled ineffective missiles, and they are fighting one of the world's best trained and organized armies that is equipped with nuclear weapons and the latest technology.

Realistically speaking, Jordan has a 10,000 times stronger chance to win the football world cup than Hamas winning the war.

Hamas is not the answer, people will realize that and the sooner the better.

#9
Qwaider
Said
On: 1/13/2009 9:28:39 PM
SpamScore=[-37.81]

You know, I might agree with you completely that Hamas is not the answer and Peace is.
Unfortunately, what Israel is doing is weaken my position and argument towards peace and coexistence. This is what I'm trying to tell you.

If Hamas is considered "to blame" here. Then so must you condemn Churchill for defending UK when they were being destroyed by Hitler. So must you condemn the Vietnamese for defending against the occupation. There's a price to be paid for defending your land and your people from the occupation. Israel is making it very expensive, not for Hamas, but for the people. Thereby strengthening Hamas beyond its wildest dreams

#10
عاشق الحفر والمغارات
Said
On: 1/13/2009 9:29:29 PM
SpamScore=[-0.02]

نعم, زرت مزبلة التاريخ, واكدو ان المطلوب انت و"احممممم" وليس المطلوب انا!
اسف جدا ولكن انت من تريدك مزابل التاريخ وكنادر اهل غزة
وكلاسين شباب مخيمات عمان

#11
Nizar
Said
On: 1/13/2009 9:43:20 PM
SpamScore=[-0.89]

Hamas are Palestinians, so they are victims too, but they are guilty victims!

They are guilty because they have chosen to fight back the occupation with force and violence knowing that they won't win (unless a god fights on their side, which is very unlikely if we speak realistically).

Now we can argue that even if Hamas didn't use violence, Israel will find or create another reason to attack Palestine and to accomplish its religious and political goals, I know that and it might be true, but in the very weak position Palestinians are in they shouldn't give any reason for the Israelis to attack them.

Violence will generate more violence and that is what we are seeing right now, and we know that violence is not the answer so we should put a stop to it.

#12
Nizar
Said
On: 1/13/2009 9:47:55 PM
SpamScore=[-0.91]

عاشق الحفر والمغارات:
هذا مش أسلوب نقاش، ناقش زي العالم أو لا تناقش بالمرة.

#13
Qwaider
Said
On: 1/13/2009 9:57:17 PM
SpamScore=[-37.85]

عاشق الحفر.. فعلا الوعاء ينضح بما فيه .. نشكر والدك الكريم على حسن تربيتك.. اهذا افضل ما عندك؟ يعني طفل عمرة 5 سنوات قد يكون عنده براعة اكبر في الرد.

Nizar,
Guilty Victims!? Is there such a thing? Stop right there!
Fighting back is the RIGHT of EVERY person who sees his country under occupation. It's a RIGHT.. No no .. it's a DUTY to fight back for your freedom and your rights.

Man Occupation is ILLIGAL. It's the greater EVIL, it's what started all of this now.
Bombing innocent people is GENOCIDE
COLLECTIVE punishment is GENOCIDE
ATTACKING CIVILIAN POPULATIONS is GENOCIDE

Let's stop arguing and justifying. When the Red Cross has condemned these attacks. That's enough talk about this whole thing.

Now I don't want to continue in a tit-for-tat argument. Present something NEW and we can talk otherwise. PLEASE... and I beg you. Don't use demeaning and degrading terms like "Guilty Victims"

#14
hamede
Said
On: 1/13/2009 10:05:27 PM
SpamScore=[-2.01]

Gaza, a symbol of pride

#15
Nizar
Said
On: 1/13/2009 10:11:10 PM
SpamScore=[-0.93]

I am sorry that it doesn't make sense to you, but that's what they are, they are victims of the Israeli occupation that have chosen to fight back knowing that they have no chance of winning and thus opened a chance for the Israelis to attack and destroy Gaza, the death tolls are reaching the 4 digits and they still insist on using violence, so they are guilty of some of the blood spilled in these attacks.

I KNOW that all that is illegal and I agree that it's wrong and inhuman and I am against it too, but look at the realistic picture, It is here to stay, it is not going to disappear no matter how much we pray to god that it does, they are the strong and we are the weak and we have no realistic chance against them, so let us accept reality as it is and stop dreaming of a victory throw this kind of fighting (the fighting done by Hamas), violence is not an option, it is for our best to stop the violence, if the Palestinians want to survive they must separate themselves from what is Hamas doing, I am sorry but we are weak side and we have to accept the rules of the stronger power if we want to survive.

Many people do consider this unacceptable in a religious, cultural and a national way, but I am sorry in the position we are in we don't have many choices..

We either continue fighting and accept what we get in return or stop fighting and hope to find a better solution for our best and our childrens future.

#16
Nizar
Said
On: 1/13/2009 10:12:34 PM
SpamScore=[-0.95]

Correction: Israel is here to stay *

#17
hamede
Said
On: 1/13/2009 10:28:56 PM
SpamScore=[-2.03]

Nizar.
If you think the Palestinian people are going to stop fighting, you are wrong the will never stop until the Establishment of the Palestinian state,and that’s a fact dos not matter what you and me think.
Correction:palestine is here to stay.

#18
Nizar
Said
On: 1/13/2009 10:43:04 PM
SpamScore=[-0.97]

Hamede: Do you think that this is the correct or the best path to take in order to establish a Palestinian state?

If you want to continue using force against Israel then you shouldn't be surprised when they reply with force, you should accept the consequences and I don't think that neither I or you want this massacre to continue.

#19
hamede
Said
On: 1/13/2009 10:48:27 PM
SpamScore=[-2.05]

The Palestinian people will continue using force, when some one stole their country, this is the only way to get their country back,it will not be given to them in a gold plate.

#20
Nizar
Said
On: 1/13/2009 11:01:24 PM
SpamScore=[-0.99]

Well if you insist on using force then you should accept the consequences, realistically speaking, the chances of Hamas wining the war are infinitely small if there are any chances at all in the first place.

If it was for me to decided, I would accept the situation as it is today and live on with what I have, the past is past and there is not much that we can do about it but learn from it.

Mankind has always fought over land and property, and life has never been fair, and neither I or you can change the nature of mankind, sometimes we are left with no option but to walk away.

After all it's not I or you that decide what should happen in Gaza, it is the Palestinian people, and I hope they understand what I mean.

last but not least,''life is not about getting what you like but liking what you get''.

#21
Qwaider
Said
On: 1/13/2009 11:07:37 PM
SpamScore=[-37.89]

Nizar,
War, and all it's atrocities were not the choice of Palestinian people. They were forced onto people of Palestine. They didn't wake up one day and said. I think I'm going to go bomb some Israelis today.
This was forced onto the Palestinians. With the help of the world colonial forces, with the help of -some- Arabs. Resistance is the only way left
Resistance through peace process counts too. It's a form of resistance. But there is no question. Resistance is the ONLY way. Pick your way on how to do it. Peacefully, politically, or even by rejecting it in your heart. But there is no choice... Everyone resists, it's not by choice. It was FORCED onto people

Oh and I recommend that you watch the new movie called "Defiance" which talks about the Jewish RESISTANCE during world war II

#22
hamede
Said
On: 1/13/2009 11:10:05 PM
SpamScore=[-2.07]

Nizar.

What you will do if someone kick you and your family out of your house what will you do, are you gouing to stand ther and say,{''life is not about getting what you like but liking what you get}.talk to me tell me what you will do.

#23
Nizar
Said
On: 1/13/2009 11:27:19 PM
SpamScore=[-1.03]

Qwaider: Trust me, I do understand you, the Palestinian people haven't chosen to be in this situation.

But they still have an option, maybe not the best options, but they are options, either continue using force and violence and accept the result or stop the attacks and try to accept the situation and live on with it.

I have the movie on my hard disk, it's a great movie, and Daniel Craig is in it, I will watch it during the weekend.

Hamede: I can't answer you because I haven't been in that situation and I don't know how it feels like and if I tell you that I will just ignore what happened and live on I will be lying to you.

But I will for sure try my best to put my emotions on the side and try to take the best option I have that leads to the best result.

#24
hamede
Said
On: 1/13/2009 11:39:28 PM
SpamScore=[-2.09]

The Palestinian people did try all their options, the only one seem working is fighting.
ما أخد بالقوة لا يسترد إلا بالقوة

#25
Nizar
Said
On: 1/13/2009 11:55:14 PM
SpamScore=[-1.05]

As far as I can tell, fighting is not getting them their property back, not this kind of fighting at least.

I hope my message is clear, I don't think fighting and killing more people is a solution for this conflict, people still have the option of separating themselves from Hamas and their followers, and by doing so they will save the lives of many innocent peoples lives that are at risk.

This will give them a new opportunity of reaching to a new peaceful solution to this conflict.

For me this is the best option and the option that I will naturally pick, some people find it unloyal to their country, nation, religion and all the people that have fought for them to exist today.

I think the conclusion is clear, continue the killings or stop the attacks and find a better solution for the conflict, and it is up to the people to chose what they find best.

#26
hamede
Said
On: 1/14/2009 12:13:10 AM
SpamScore=[-2.11]

You see you don't get it, israhill do not want to give any thing back .yaser arafat try everything with them, the whole world is trying that's the way the are and you are talking about the people separating them self from hamas, what do you think hamas come from lala land.
The got all the people support in gaza and the Arab world.

#27
Nizar
Said
On: 1/14/2009 12:19:35 AM
SpamScore=[-1.07]

I didn't say that through peace you will get your property back, back most likely you will keep what you have, elect a proper government, get recognized as a state, control your borders, start a real economy, rebuild proper hospitals and schools and prepare a better future for your children.

It is up to you, you choose what fits you best, fighting and causing more violence in hope that one day you will get your land back or at least gain the paradise in the claimed to be next life ... or stop the blood shed and create a better place to live in for you and your children.

#28
Hani Obaid
Said
On: 1/14/2009 4:34:04 AM
SpamScore=[-5.19]

Nizar,
I was completely against Hizbollah provoking Israel, since mostly if Hizbollah leaves Israel alone, Israel will leave it and Lebanon alone, but Gaza is not the same story. Like you I prefer none-violence, but that's when you have a choice. As it is Gazans have been under siege or getting attacked continuously even during the so called ceasefire, and even before this latest full attack started.

If you look at the history of it, you'd know Israel isn't really seeking peace. Notice how it's constantly saying Hamas are terrorists and buddying up with Fateh now?

I'm old enough to remember when it was doing the opposite, back then Fateh was too strong, and Israel wanted to strengthen Hamas so that it would balance Fateh for it.

Divide and conquer.

So let's put it this way. The best case scenario is that Gaza never initiate violence, but when attacked they have to respond, and the siege itself is an attack.

Read this excellent article from someone (a retired IDF soldier and oxfor professor) who understands things on both sides of the fence (I got the link from Batir):
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/07/gaza-israel-palestine

#29
Petra
Said
On: 1/24/2009 10:46:06 AM
SpamScore=[1]

CORRECTION: There was never a country named Palestine.
CORRECTION: It was a region like Asia and Siberia.
CORRECTION: "Palestinians" became "Palestinians" in one day.
QUESTION: WHAT HAPPENED IN 2002, BEFORE THE FENCE WAS BUILT, AND PALESTINIANS WERE ABLE TO ROAM IN AND OUT OF ISRAELI TERRITORY? RIGHT.

#30
Petra
Said
On: 1/24/2009 10:49:03 AM
SpamScore=[-0.02]

And Israel wouldn't have to attack Gaza, if Hamas wasn't smuggling in weapons. If they wouldn't be a threat, Israel wouldn't give a crap about them. But they are a threat. You can't risk the lives of Israeli citizens for a bunch of barbaric animals who want to see to the destruction of your country, your people, your nation...Jews.

#31
Qwaider
Said
On: 1/24/2009 8:12:03 PM
SpamScore=[-47.93]

Petra
You mean to say, the 6 million refugees didn't exist in Palestine?
You mean to say the British didn't rule this land of Palestine and had currency, maps ..etc in it's name?
You mean to say that the Ottomans didn't rule a place called Arab palestine where they were sypathetic to the poor Jews who came to US FOR SHELTER and WE SAVED THEM?
You mean to say it wasn't under the Mamluk Rule where the ARAB MUSLIMS fended off Crusaders, and the Mongols?
You mean to say the Arabs and Muslims didn't kick out the Roman Empire from it?

Go read some history, the Zionest lies have become so old! You might have fooled the 1940's American public but don't even dream of saying Palestine or Palestinians didn't Exist! It's OUR land, it's OUR homes and one day, it will be back

Before the fence what was happening? Israel was STILL the Zionist, Racest, voilent entity that defies all UN resolutions and have STOLE the land and LIVES of the Arab Palestinians.

As for your second comment
So how come the Jewish Hagana were smuggling and building AND TERRORIZING the British in Palestine and that was OK?

But I REALLY REALLY appreciate your words. ESPECIALLY the part about "Barbaric Animals"

So that's why you slaughter other human beings? They're Animals to you... I understand... yes .. sure...
YOU FUCKEN RACIST PIG!