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Breaking News: Jordan waves annulling the peace treaty with Israel

  • By: Qwaider

  • On:Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:56:53 AM
  • In:Thoughts
  • Viewed: (6033) times

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    Jordan government appear to have heard the millions of voices asking and pleading to kick the Israeli Ambassador out of Jordan and to annul the Israeli-Jordanian peace treaty in an amazing turn of events.

    That's not all, the Jordanian Ambassador to Israel Ali Al Ayed appears to be in a mandatory "vacation" in Jordan.

    Are we going to see the light at the end of the tunnel for Jordan?

    I talked couple of days ago how the Israeli-Jordanian peace treaty falls short of the hopes and dreams of Jordanians but even worse for Palestinians, and the rest of the Arab world.

    But this turn of events is important... here's why..

    1) 31 Members of the Parliament are spearheading a Movement to force the government to annul the treaty and to kick the Ambassador out.

    2) Al Thahabi, appears to be waving the choices that Jordan has to push diplomacy forward. One of these mentioned choices is the Peace treaty

    3) Apparently, the Jordanian government is hesitating to take any action until it gets a certain level of assurances from Arab nations particularly, withdrawing the Arab peace initiative.

    4) I guess finally the government is expecting to see the repercussions of such a step by the United state and how it will affect the Aid to Jordan

    Are these all good indicators of some selfless acts by the Jordanian government, a maneuver to win some time, or a cheap way to gain some popularity in the eyes of the millions who are chanting against the Kingdom? Or did we suddenly struck a previously undiscovered vein of real blood in the face of Jordanian diplomacy while millions of Turks, Kurds, Iranians, Pakistanis, Indians, Indonesians, Malaysians and Mauritanians have appeared to be more loyal to the cause than the Palestinian twin...

    Or perhaps the solidification of the alternate-homeland through what is going on right now on the ground is scaring Jordan?

    Time will tell... But this is certainly a step in the RIGHT direction

    Other Memories Documented on January 06
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    Memories....

    • #1
    • Nizar
    • Windows Firefox Browser
    • Said
    • On: 1/6/2009 10:16:39 AM
    • SpamScore=[-0.51]
    I don't see how this is going to help the situation.
    • #2
    • Qwaider
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 1/6/2009 10:22:29 AM
    • SpamScore=[-47.17]
    In diplomacy, there are many cards to be played to pressure your opponent, nicely. This is a simple way to return the insult to Israel since apparently they carry absolutely no weight to any requests made by the Jordanian government
    Other than that, it's a simple expression of rejecting the atrocities and showing some solidarity with Palestinians and a little bit sensitivity towards their conditions. It's shameful to have a treaty and just observing while your brothers get systematically and methodically murdered in cold blood

    Read more in the link I added to my previous post.
    bel 3aks it will! I hope they actually do it and not use talk to keep people quiet! 3o2bal ma9r!
    • #4
    • Jad
    • Ubuntu OS Firefox Browser
    • Said
    • On: 1/6/2009 1:27:23 PM
    • SpamScore=[0.49]
    1-) This isn't a breaking news but three days old news.
    2-) You know nothing about diplomacy so stop acting as if you do.
    ya 7abeebi ya jad, this is one of the times i wish we el 3arab start acting like jews for a moment, in unity that is! i for once dont talk politics, i wish we had a good leader that leads the way, i know nothing about leadership skills nor politics, i talk history, big picture, idealism, and ethics, but i understand we need diplomats and politicians, we need both strings, i never try to shut any political effort even if it is to me just futile, meen 3aref, barkee mennee elak la 2elo yetla3 feena 7ada sa7... why did u shut a trial and assume its "nothing" when you yourself could have contemplated the idea of writing about it yourself? our enemy would never do that to each other... can we learn a bit about "tolerance" towards each other?
    on another note, notice the jews never refer to palestinians in their conflicts, its always hamas, abbas, or fate7, or egypt, or the resistance, their politicians rarely use the term "palestinian"... i understand that to resolve the conflict one needs to be realistic, but who said calling it israel is realistic? its down right foolish i believe.. and it does wonders inside our brains... so lets stop calling it that, find a more proper name for the filth of earth!
    • #6
    • Qwaider
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 1/6/2009 5:23:51 PM
    • SpamScore=[-47.19]

    Jad you don't even know how to speak let alone argue
    But I'm willing to retract this sentence IF you provide me with a single 3 year old new source.
    What a whack job! Are you ever going to grow up? Or you were absent the day they taught manners in kindergarten?

    This is "News" because it is a MAJOR shift in the Jordanian position that appears to consider the treaty sacred. Sadly though people like you are so localized that you see the whole thing from the inside and see dwarfs as giants. So you don't really see the big picture particularly about what's going in Jordan

    Anyway, isti7i 3ala dammak and start acting your age

    • #7
    • Jad
    • Ubuntu OS Firefox Browser
    • Said
    • On: 1/6/2009 5:35:34 PM
    • SpamScore=[0.48]
    Mariam,
    ya 7abebti  ok whatever.

    Qwaider,
    Not sure if there is a three DAYS source online but it was on Jordan TV three days ago, I guess that explains how outsider you are :-)

    I'm not going to comment on your politeness, I guess we are used used to your bad mouth now.
    • #8
    • Qwaider
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 1/6/2009 5:43:43 PM
    • SpamScore=[-47.21]
    My bad mouth? Grow up little one, YOU are the one who run your mouth like a 5 year old.
    But you know, I know nothing about diplomacy, and somehow you do! That's why I respond exactly as you deserve. You started it son.

    Now EVEN if this wasn't news, My analysis is. So try to show some respect and stick to whatever it is that you know... emm .. what is that really?
    • #9
    • hamede
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 1/6/2009 5:57:01 PM
    • SpamScore=[-1.4]
    المعاهدة  وقعت رغما عن إرادة
    الشعب الأردني

    يرى الجبناء أن العجزَ عقلٌ
    • #10
    • Nizar
    • Windows Firefox Browser
    • Said
    • On: 1/6/2009 7:30:29 PM
    • SpamScore=[-0.55]
    Sam: For the first time you have managed to convince me using a good argument, what you mentioned in your reply to me is true, I am not going to deny that..

    But look at the bigger picture for a moment, Israel doesn't rely on Jordan in anyway, pulling back ambassadors would hardly affect the state of Israel..

    In fact it will only make communications harder in the region, and that is not something we need more of right now..

    Jad was just pointing out that these news have been around now for a couple of days, replying him with an immature manner wouldn't disprove his point nor prove yours.
    • #11
    • Qwaider
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 1/6/2009 8:08:22 PM
    • SpamScore=[-36.96]

    You know Nizar, You had me then you lost me
    Immature? Guys, where in the world have you learned how to reply to other views?
    When someone tells you "You don't know anything about X" that's a personal insult. And I have every right to reply back the way I deem appropriate.

    Second thing, you both failed to show any evidence of what you're talking about. There has been a lot of blogs mentioning their personal stance on the matter but nothing I've seen in the news remotely suggest that this is the official position.

    As far as the international media is concerned (and that is what counts by the way) this is a change in heart.

    Now for how much is this going to benefit ... ANYONE...
    Here are my personal views on this:
    1) Renegotiating the treaty on better terms in light of what is going in the world might be a better deal for Jordan. Since whatever the treaty has done to Jordan, has all been burned by Israeli madness and agression towards EVERYONE
    2) Showing solidarity with Gaza will also weaken the Israeli position in the world opinion. A country has annulled a treaty because of serious human rights violations. In other words. It helps
    3) Israel is already taking precautions to anything that might come to them from the East (as mentioned in their news) which means. They don't really trust us that much to begin with.
    4) The treaty doesn't live up to the hopes of ordinary Jordanians. It wasn't don’t in any democratic way or by a democratically elected government. Therefore it will always be criticized because of that.
    5) Cancelling this agreement means that everyone -else- who's negotiating or thinking of negotiating might have a better chance
    6) A bigger scale treaty with all parties concerned might be harder to make. BUT when 5 are on one side and 1 on the other. I believe they would have more bargaining chips
    7) Jordan needs some sort of assurances that it's not the "Alternate home" and that should decide the fate of the refugees in Jordan and their right of return. This is once again in the best interest in Jordan FIRST and the refugees second

    So you see my friend, there's a lot that can be read into this matter. It's not that simple. I'm merely reporting a piece of interesting news, and providing my own take on it. Calling me names isn't going to change a thing. And my retaliation is also nothing to be ashamed off, I have the right to voice my own opinion about the opinions pointed -once again- personally at me

    • #12
    • Nizar
    • Windows Firefox Browser
    • Said
    • On: 1/6/2009 8:41:20 PM
    • SpamScore=[-0.57]
    Now if this is new or old news I don't care really and I haven't commented on that..

    you are again stating what I have said but in different words..
    As you mentioned, this is nothing more than a pressure card, and such pressure hardly affects Israel if we look at the bigger and more realistic picture.
    • #13
    • Qwaider
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 1/6/2009 8:52:42 PM
    • SpamScore=[-37.48]
    If we can’t win the war, how about we win legitimacy from the UN and the rest of the world?
    This is not exactly what you said, and it’s not related to it.
    At least I took the time to give you what you need, and didn’t resort to calling you or your argument immature.
    • #14
    • Nizar
    • Windows Firefox Browser
    • Said
    • On: 1/6/2009 9:06:33 PM
    • SpamScore=[-0.59]
    Maybe I haven't written my opinion clearly, the withdrawal of ambassadors will have some effect on Israel, But that effect is infinitely small and would hardly do anything if we look at the situation from a more realistic point of view.

    In fact it will most likely lead to more troubles in the region.

    All the points that you have stated go along these lines, some tinny effect but no realistic effect.

    I appreciate your time and effort, I know that me and you disagree in many different fields yet I have learned a lot from debating with you, which makes it enjoyable for my part although it quite often gets out of hand.

    I have never insulted you personally, and I wouldn't, I have only pointed out that the immature manner you have chosen to reply with to Jads comment wouldn't help you prove your point.
    • #15
    • Qwaider
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 1/6/2009 9:29:10 PM
    • SpamScore=[-37.5]

    Regarding my response, You convinced me... I agree with you.
    Jad and Nizar,
    If you feel offended in anyway. I hereby apologize to both of you. I'm sorry. I will try not to get carried away next time


    As for my view, and your view of the treaty. This is all speculations at best on both sides. We would never know until they materialize in real life. We shouldn't also dismiss any counter action the Israel might take with their very smart politicians. I'm sure they wouldn't just let it pass...

    But I continue to believe that it's not in the best interest of Jordanians, Palestinians and doesn't represent the real choice of the -most- people, Palestinian, Jordanian or even the average Arab person. But that's a personal opinion

    • #16
    • hamede
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 1/6/2009 10:42:32 PM
    • SpamScore=[-1.41]
    Nizar.
    TREATY OF PEACE
    BETWEEN THE STATE OF ISRAEL AND THE HASHEMITE KINGDOM OF JORDAN
    October 26, 1994PREAMBLEThe Government of the State of Israel and the Government of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan:Bearing in mind the Washington Declaration , signed by them on 25th July, 1994, and which they are both committed to honour;Aiming at the achievement of a just, lasting and comprehensive peace in the Middle East based an Security Council resolutions 242 and 338 in all their aspects
    With the current situation, I think annulling the treaty may be a good idea since even if only to apply meager diplomatic pressure.

    While I'm against kicking the ambassador out because I think it is important to keep the lines of communication open especially with your worst enemies, I think what is very telling is that Venezuela kicked the Israeli ambassador when no Arab country has had the guts to do it.

    Chavez is my personal hero today!
    Just read the other comments. We are already gaining all the legitimacy with the UN the same legitimacy Israel lost when it heavily bombed UNRWA schools that were opened by the UN to receive refugees whose homes were demolished by Israeli bombing; killing nearly 50 people in a single day including as we all know a large number of women and children.

    This is even worse than during the Iraq war when the US bombed the public bomb shelter claiming Sadam was inside it!

    Remember it's only a "crime of war" when the perpetrator won't play ball with the US. Otherwise, it's only Israel defending itself, those little children whose home was demolished.

    The beauty of it is that although Jewish law forbids all murder, it justifies these particular murders because of something called pikuach nefesh. Basically it's a jewish concept that puts the sanctity of life above all other considerations annulling all other laws in the process. Meaning it's ok to kill a Palestinian if that Palestinian was going to kill an Israeli (i.e. if that person is a "rodef"), or it's okay to work on improving the missile defense system on Saturday (normally forbidden) if it will save Israeli lives. So some Rabbis have declared the Gaza war pikuach nefesh justifying any and all means and declaring all Gazans rodefs. The obviously racist part of this application is that it considers the sanctity of only jewish life as opposed to holding that all life is sacred. Remind you of anyone?

    Effectively it's a fatwa allowing murdering everyone in gaza men, women and children alike (they're gonna grow up to be rodefs). Of course if a Muslim cleric issues such a fatwa, the world media would pick it up in 5 seconds.

    So once again the world would be better off without religion!
    • #20
    • Qwaider
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 1/7/2009 7:55:24 AM
    • SpamScore=[-47.27]
    Yeah, only Islamic Fatwas make the headlines. I'm sure the Rabbis are pissed off at that!
    But I just learned that according to International laws, attacking militants while they are with civilians is illegal! But with the US using the words "collateral damage" like "drinking water" I guess people completely forget about this
    Of course, Israel will never respect this law

    How sad!
    yeah I heard the top UNRWA guy in Palestine (Sami Mshasha) earlier today say it's a violation of international law and I think he also said the Geneva convention, but these are things that neither Israel nor the US respect. Remember the US is one of the 7 countries (along with China, Iraq, Israel, Libya, Qatar, and Yemen) that refused to join the treaty for the international criminal court which would effectively allow other countries to judge any acts of genocide, or war crimes they've committed. Of course considering the number of such crimes the US has committed in Iraq, and Israel has committed in Palestine, it's not very surprising.
    • #23
    • Nizar
    • Windows Firefox Browser
    • Said
    • On: 1/7/2009 6:02:27 PM
    • SpamScore=[-0.65]
    Sam: Apology accepted, it is true, at this point we can do nothing but make predictions on how it will work out.

    Hamede: and how do you use that as support of your argument?
    • #24
    • hamede
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 1/7/2009 7:20:35 PM
    • SpamScore=[-1.42]
    Nizar.
    Normalization in the jordanian spher meant there was going to be a ‘warm ‘peace :that jordan and isreal were going to be more than just neighbors.this is a view that was expounded upon in the ideas surrounding the concept labeled “the new middle East” promoted by shimon peres for one. it held that economics would break down political barriers and that over time a new middle east based on economic unification would override the old middle east of warring boundaries.

    Today the ‘vision’is obviously not realized and is not held by the jordanian public or ,in a general sense, by the jordanian regime itself.there are exceptions,in that israel and jordan have maintained a certain degree of security cooperation-some above board some not talked about at all- but at a limited level. in its real sense though. normalization is dead.
    Read the treaty at my blog.
    You too can have your Memories Documented

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