Science proving miracles?
- By: Qwaider
- On:Tuesday, December 30, 2008 9:30:54 AM
- In:Thoughts
- Viewed: (10039) times
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I just finished two interesting documentaries aired on the Discovery Channel and the BCC last month. These are no hocus pocus programs going over myth, miracle and magic to explain the unexplainable. These were very scientific and very well documented features going into details and examining biblical stories (also in the Quran) and going over the historical evidence and scientific proof that supports the "plausibility" of such miracles.
The two I watched were Sodom and Gomorrah (قوم لوط) and Exodus. With great deal of detail scientific scrutiny. Taking into account the historical side, scientific side and even the social side. The results were astonishing to say the least
Now, I'm not saying these discoveries are going to make a believer out of everyone. But what they provide in Miracle has some bases in scientific fact, in that sense, Holy books becomes historical testaments on historical events that at least some people saw the hand of God in action. But skeptics who refuse miracles without explanation (like myself) can be satisfied that "God" doesn't just make things happen with no reason. In my view God wouldn't violate the laws of Causality that he himself have created. Or that's what I believe
The show explains the parting of the sea, with a scientific experiment in the lab, and a bigger scale experiment in Florida proving it can actually happen then found the actual location in the sea where it could possibly happen.
Even the raining fiery stones from the sky over Sodom and Gomorrah, were explained using a few thousand year old clay plate found in Samaria documenting a rare event in the sky, An asteroid on its way that eventually landed around Austria. With burning stones from the impact crater pluming to the stratosphere and rained back as fire from the sky over the Dead Sea area. The artifact from Ancient Samaria was translated only this year.
Proof from astronomical investigation following the speed, size and trajectory of the asteroid that exploded in a 100 times larger force than the largest nuclear weapon. But investigators went also to the geologic evidence and proved scientifically that there was what can be considered a massive event around the same time frame.
Nobody ended up converting, believing or anything. But it's chilling to see that if you look deep enough. You can prove anything with science. Even miraculous events in the bible. Not only that, but if you don't believe anything religions every tell you. Consider the positive sides, the ethics they teach, the morals they promote, the logic and advice they provide, the hope they give ... To billions
But add to that list one very important item. These books, tales provide what can be Historical fact, even if it was fact of the eyes of 5000 year old humans. A legacy of humanity, rich with the very first written and preserved historic accounts of prehistoric humans
An interesting part in the Exodus story, a claim is made, a very astonishing claim. The claim is that Mount Badr in Saudi Arabia is actually the real Mount Sinai. Yes, it's the same mount Badr where the Muslims won their very first battle. Astonishing how all this area is just completely riddled with history and human heritage, from the beginning of time
No one might be able to unequivocally prove religions and faith are true. But, at least many believers can rest assured that what they believe isn't something people can laugh at. Even science is finally proving increasing its plausibility.
Fadi: الله يرحمها و يجعل مثواها بعليين و يجمعك معها بالجنة بعد عمر طويل
بلوجر بالعربي: looks very good
Noura: Different home, but same longing and nostalgia .. it seems we are chasing a mirage , Beirut of my dreams does not exist nor the people i miss .. i don't know if my gains were worth the losses ? I 
price waves repeat: The other day, while I was at work, my sister stole my iphone and tested to see if it can survive a 25 foot drop, just so she can be a youtube sensation. My iPad is now broken 
Sara: You can say that again!God Bless🕊
ياسمين حميد: كما هي طبيعتنا نحن العرب، عند الانتقال بين منصة وأخرى لا نحتفظ بالأولى بل نتركها ونهجرها. الأمور عندنا خاضعة ل
Qwaider: These possessions are meaningless as you said, but it's still painful to let go :( May Allah grant you all you wish for and unite you with your loved ones
Nicolas: The rapid increase in intelligence within this generation is responsible for completely unforeseen phenomena that academicians are not prepared for.Some of these classic TV shows remained 
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Fadi:الله يرحمها و يجعل مثواها بعليين و يجمعك معها بالجنة بعد عم%
بلوجر بالعربي:looks very good
Noura:Different home, but same longing and nostalgia .. it seems we are chasing a mirage , Beirut of my dreams does not exist nor the people i miss .. i don't know if my gains were worth the losses ? I
price waves repeat:The other day, while I was at work, my sister stole my iphone and tested to see if it can survive a 25 foot drop, just so she can be a youtube sensation. My iPad is now broken
Sara:You can say that again!God Bless🕊
ياسمين حميد:كما هي طبيعتنا نحن العرب، عند الانتقال بين منصة وأخرى لا نحت%
Qwaider:These possessions are meaningless as you said, but it's still painful to let go :( May Allah grant you all you wish for and unite you with your loved ones
Session=
Memories....
The way I see it as you have narrated the events in the films is that if there was enough evidence to prove these religions true, the makers of the film wouldn't be still atheists.
I will put it simple and clear, science is the understanding of reality.
talking snakes, devils, angels, spirits, unicorns are not part of our reality because science can't prove their existence.
you might say will because they are transparent, see through, can't hold them into a closed bottle or a test tube, but there are many things that we can't see nor touch or feel like radio waves, microwaves, ultraviolet, infrared, x rays, gamma rays, alpha rays, beta rays...
science has proven their existence through studying the behavior of the atoms around us which everything in our universe is made up of.
We don't know everything, anybody that tells you i know the whole absolute truth is a lair, because no one does, but we know some truth!
and that truth contradicts and does not go along with what religions and holy books claim.
a serial killer can give you good advise that will help your social life with the people around you but that doesn't mean that he is sent down to you from good.
Sounding good, true, nice, comforting what ever is not the same as being the truth.
Jesus might have existed, Noah might have existed too and carried his herd with him on a boat trip but that doesn't mean that they are goods messengers or gods sons nor does that prove gods existence.
anyway, I better make no judgments about the film before i see it.
As I said, I didn't say "definitely" I said, it makes some miracles "Plausible"
I just want to refer to the things we can't see, first of all. The smallest we can see is around the width of an Atom. The smallest time frame we can see is also barely around few atto seconds. If you know what Plank's constant is, you will know that there are WORLDS that exist between those periods of time and small spaces. (like in the string theory if you ever heard of it)
Those are one world that is forbidden for us to see .. yet!
Second one is anything beyond 14 billion light-years away. We have NO IDEA what lies beyond that
Third, it's scientifically proven that plausibility of alternate universes. How they exist is anyone's guess. But they can exist in a different phase in the SAME space that we occupy.
Those are very few examples of things that may-or-may-not exist. But we have theorized about them and there's a lot of evidence that supports them
As scientests we can't rule out things that we have not seen or proved. The reason we don't make such bold claims is that we have learned from history
In fact all you did is just proved what I have previously said, ''we don't know the whole truth but we know some truth''.
the point that I am making is that science is far far more developed than we can imagine, science has made many discoveries of things around us that we have never knew about nor were able to see or feel.
Unfortunately till this day nothing has been discovered that supports the existence of spirits, Satan, devils, genies and all these things that we hear about from the holy books.
In fact there has been many discoveries through science that contradicts the stories and the tellings of the holy books.
Proving religious stories to be scientifically true can be difficult, and I understand why they have failed miserably over and over in proving any one of them to be true scientifically, because they are based on anything but realistic, existing, reliable, credible, empirical, testable evidence.
But disproving scientific evidence against them is not something that I can understand, and they have failed in doing that over and over with no supportive results.
Just see the documentaries if you can. And then decide for yourself if there's evidence or not
What theories that you think I'm using to confuse you? Trust me, I'm not trying to "sound smart"
I will leave you a comment after I watch these movies.
There have been other examples were science has proven stuff that came in holy books, so this is not a total first. It is interesting nonetheless. Certainly, it is a first (afaik) for the events of the parting sea and the rockets rain.
By the way, wasn't Badr a water well ? I thought that was the whole strategy that Muslims stayed near the water well and blocked it from Qurayesh. Or was that water well also on top of a hill ? .. Because the mountain i remember is Uhud in the Battle of Uhud where the Muslims stayed on top of it.
Nizar, I don't know any atheists who have converted from being intellectually shown the scientific proofs of faith, but know many who have realized their need for forgiveness and being made right with their creator.
There is a book called "The Mountain of God" about two adventurers who followed the Biblical wanderings of the Jews and came to the same conclusions: it's in Saudi. It's been fenced and guarded since they saw it. The only reason tradition says it was the Sinai is because Constantine's mother had a vision.
to Nizar: I think you're confusing finding God with Knowing God, to know God look at his massive creatures and the little ones and the ones in between, at the amazing coherency in everything, at yourself, and others, but to find God you look inside you, science cannot prove God exists, because our knowledge is soooo limited, we do not look around to find evidence of stories in the Quran, we believe the stories because they were told in the Quran, we passed the level of "finding" God and now we simply trust him and want to know more about him... so you can try to look in nature and science for proof of God forever, i assure you, you will find nothing... and that is God's rule Himself
سورة يونس
95 إِنّ الذين حقّت عليهِم كَلِمَت ربك لا يؤمنون
ولو جاءتهم كل آية حتى يروا العذاب الأليم 96
سورة الأنعام 25
ومنهم من يستمع إِلَيك وجعلنا على قلوبهِم أَكنة أن يفقهوه وفي آذانهم وقرا وإِن يروا كل آية لا يؤمنوا بها حتى إذا جآؤوك يجادلونك يقول الذين كفروا إِن هذا إِلا أساطيرُ الأولين
سورة الأعراف 146
سأَصرف عن آياتي الذين يتكبرون في الأَرض بِغير الحق وإِن يروا كل آية لا يؤمنوا بها وإِن يروا سبيل الرشد لاَ يتخذوه سبِيلا وإِن يروا سبيل الغي يتخذوه سبيلا ذلك بأنهم كذبوا بِآياتنا وكانوا عنها غافلين
The documentaries are called: "Sodom and Gomorra" and "exodus", I'll get you more production details soon.
Kinzi
Thanks for the additional information. I think the mountain is under guard because f its historical significance to Muslims as well. Since there was a battle fought next to it, and Muslims were on top of it at one point.
Mariam
I believe, that god is ultimate perfection. Perfection in space and time. One of these aspects of perfection is causing everything to happen with his will. Certain things could have gone left or right, but that's where the will of god interfere. Even in things that won't happen without a million in one chance. It's god's will to make it happen. This includes the big-bang, Creation of Earth, emergence of Life, evolution in one direction and not the other. Everything is well orchestrated, down to the nano-second.
But that's my belief, and I'm not looking to impose it on anyone or project it onto others.
in soddom and gomorra, couldnt the phenomenon have been just a coincidence that people interpreted as an act of God.. or another scenario, couldnt the whole story have been made up after the fact??
Anyway, we might never know for certain.
I agree with Maryam. I think each prayer can in fact be viewed as a request to change the rules, to intervene and change the outcome. The best example is Abraham's prayer which is documented in the Quran:
"رَّبَّنَا إِنِّي أَسْكَنتُ مِن ذُرِّيَّتِي بِوَادٍ غَيْرِ ذِي زَرْعٍ عِندَ بَيْتِكَ الْمُحَرَّمِ رَبَّنَا لِيُقِيمُوا الصَّلَاةَ فَاجْعَلْ أَفْئِدَةً مِّنَ النَّاسِ تَهْوِي إِلَيْهِمْ وَارْزُقْهُم مِّنَ الثَّمَرَاتِ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَشْكُرُونَ"
translation for English readers:
O God I have left some of my offspring to dwell in a valley without plants, near your Sacred House; so that they hold regular Prayer o lord fill the hearts of men with love towards them, and feed them with fruits: so that they may give thanks.
So he left his family in a place where plants can't grow (desert), and asked God to make people's hearts always love that place, and to make it "fruitful" (dates).
My dad is fond of pointing that aya out especially at hajj time and saying that's why that mountain and the area around the ka3ba is never empty any time of the year.
"Qwaider said: Consider the positive sides, the ethics they teach, the morals they promote, the logic and advice they provide, the hope they give ... To billions"
Why only consider the positive side ? There has been at least as much negative if not more.
Since science has expanded beyond our imagination, and with the miraculous invention of the internet, one can only go to wiki and type in the terms Qwaider mentioned and the 8/10 figure would change.
شكرا جزيلا على التوضيح و اشكر لك مرورك دائما
في الحقيقة، انا لست بحاجة لمشاهدة معجزة للإيمان بالله. و ارى بأن اعظم معجزة بنظري هي الكمال. فكمال الخلق بحد ذاته اعظم معجزة.
لكني اعترف انّني اخطأت في كلامي و انه بالفعل ربّنا ايّد رسله بالمعجزات لإقناع ضعاف القلوب. معجزات لم و لن يمكن تفسيرها و ليس لها اساس او تفسير علمي
اشكر لك كلماتك. و مرورك. و اثمّن لك نصيحتك. جازاك الله كل الخير