So what exactly do you bring to the table?

By: Qwaider

On:Monday, July 03, 2006 8:22:01 AM
In:Thoughts
Viewed: (4441) times

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I'm a little puzzled about this matter and I'm not really sure what to think of it. People get married and each is supposed to bring some value into the marriage. But I just can't put my finger on it.

silhouette

So people get married or many reasons. Love, companionship, security, need fulfillment and many other reasons. But what do each of the couples bring to the table?

The reason I'm saying this is that in our traditional systems. The guy is supposed to bring everything (materialistic) to the table. He has to provide in other words, put food on the table that he bought and placed in the house that he got for the marriage that he payed for every expense to go through. Fascinating.

As a guy, I've been groomed ever since I was a baby to fulfill these duties, but as I get closer and closer to the point where I need to make the next evolutionary step in my life (i.e marriage) I can't help but wonder. If someone is not getting married for Love (which would justify pretty much everything) What should they expect in return of their hard earned life.

If the answer is that she's in it with her "Efforts" I find myself having hard time accepting that. Because both have to put in an effort for a marriage to continue. Then what exactly is it?

I'm sure someone reading this would say, "You've been in the west too long an have been tented with their looseness". But I find my experience here to be an eye opener one, where I find myself in a position to question some of the traditions we have inherited and practice while we're totally oblivious to their value.

Over here for example, both bride and groom (and their families) share the costs of the wedding (but usually the father of the Bride takes care of it for his little daughter). Although, there is no written rule on who does what. Those roles are more well defined in our culture.

So what exactly (In our culture) do women bring to the table? Can someone answer this? And I already know the first item, her body and not interested in that part. Because frankly that's a mutual thing she surrenders her body so does he (At least in theory)

Could THIS subject be the reason why men sometimes resent marriage? Could this be a factor that contributes in the escalating cases of divorce? Are men not being fulfilled emotionally and socially to a level where they turn the whole experience to a living nightmare for the two?

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« Marriage, Personality tug of war

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#1
Summer
Said
On: 7/3/2006 9:03:45 AM

In a loving relationship, one should NOT expect things in return…mateiral or tangible things. At least this is my view about it. Marriage is an establishment that takes a lot of hard work in many aspects to make it last happily. Each partner has a big role to fulfill towards oneself, each other, the relationship and the people involved in the marriage such as kids, in laws and extended family- because when you marry a person, you also marry the whole family-. It is an institution of unconditional love and giving. Maybe I sound too idealistic, but this is how I feel marriage should be. During the marriage people change and grow, positively or negatively, I feel that the success of their marriage depends on that change. But as long as the couple has a foundation of understanding, respect and love then they will survive and succeed to make it. Compromise is the key word in any marriage, and then, everything falls into its right place.

#2
Qwaider
Said
On: 7/3/2006 9:08:37 AM

Wow ... Summer! I'm speechless ... You make me want to get married RIGHT NOW!
Unfortunately that's a very optimistic "should be" view isn't it? So we really can't expect it to be exactly as dreamy as you just said

#3
Summer
Said
On: 7/3/2006 9:16:04 AM

YOU should be optimistic and realistic about marriage and about life. why expect the worst is one of God's blessings?? i do not think i painted a picture of dreamy ideas about marriage!!
i really wish you the best in everything you decide..but are you having cold feet for any reason? you make me wonder about all those posts about marriage and relationships!

#4
Rasha
Said
On: 7/3/2006 9:17:52 AM

Yes we can't expect it to be as dreamy as Summer said! but I believe that having a successful marriage where both are fulfilled and happy is not an easy task, we can't go on expecting that every thing is going to be fine by it self, no matter how much a couple love each other when it comes to marriage they will face a lot of challenges, I think what we miss here is the patient and demonstration to make it succeed, we r pioneers when it comes to running away or just pulling out of a relationship, but the fact is relationships need effort to be balanced and a couple must try their best to understand each others needs and way of life and try to cope with it, fulfill it and accept it not try to change each other.

#5
Iman
Said
On: 7/3/2006 9:18:06 AM

It depends on which part of the Arab world you're from...If you're from Gaza - your daddy will pay for it ..If you're from Egypt - your daddy will pay for it, too! (these are the only two that I know!)

anyway, financial aspect has its role when it comes to a successful marriage..it has nothing to do with being materialistic at all, but financial constraints can cause problems. If he cannot afford to get married, chances are he cannot afford to start a family...the woman can help out by being less demanding...afterall, whatever expenses/debts he will accrue will be her burden just as much as his ... I believe that the two should have a fair share in everything (bills, etc.) but as to not shatter the man's ego, i would have to say that ultimately he is to be considered the main provider...

I don't have an answer to your question, but I have a question: as a man what would you like the woman who is going to be the future mother of your children to bring into the relationship/marriage?

#6
Qwaider
Said
On: 7/3/2006 9:18:37 AM

You want the truth? I'm petrified of huge steps like that. But my personal life aside, I'm putting out some valid questions. Don't you think?

#7
Iman
Said
On: 7/3/2006 9:25:05 AM

Yeah...but you need to answer that question first ... what would you want her to bring to the table! that's more important than what society expects her to!

#8
Danah
Said
On: 7/3/2006 9:40:16 AM

We are prisoners of our own traditions.. Most women here in Jordan, are accustomed to the idea were a man/a groom is to provide everything materialistic in the relationship and to start the marital life. And for many families, the idea of a man proposing to their daughters without holding the basic elements of what they'd rate as basic , i.e. good financial situation , capability of providing a nice residence , is in most cases treated as unacceptable. Whereas on the other hand the girl herself is being raised on the concept that the man of the house is the only money maker and provider , and as she enters adulthood , she sees many of her female companions gets married according to the same old thoughts . I think this could be one of the crucial reasons why many young men resent the idea of marriage, especially with this continuous inflation locally and worldwide. You cannot blame the parents totally because according to them and to how most of them got married , this was the only way for their parents to make sure that their girls will be secured to change that might be hard , but it proved to be possible , I can only mention one nearby Arab country "Egypt" where both sides are sharing the load in fulfilling the materialistic needs of their life to come .

#9
Qwaider
Said
On: 7/3/2006 9:42:26 AM

I'm not sure to tell you the truth. I think the main factor would be appreciation. How this appreciation is projected is a totally other story.
Demands might be fully justified, but sometimes it can be too much

In Jordan(regardless of origin), the groom needs to take care of everything. Grooms father may help, but it's expected that the groom is taking care of this stuff. That's why you see so many young men end up expats in the gulf, Europe and the US. Once they're there (like me) they start questioning these traditional casts

#10
7ala
Said
On: 7/3/2006 9:46:23 AM

Do you know what is the best part and the most right one in this post?
"You've been in the west too long an have been tented with their looseness" ! :-)

#11
Qwaider
Said
On: 7/3/2006 9:59:36 AM

I guess ... it's a crime to be have your eyes surgically enlarged ;) I love having my eyes WIDE OPEN!

#12
Qwaider
Said
On: 7/3/2006 10:03:53 AM

Danah, I couldn't agree with you more! That was well said
The sad part, there are so very few people that think like that, and even fewer that adhere to that. People only consider that when their brother/son is going through the marriage ordeal, but not their daughter

#13
Danah
Said
On: 7/3/2006 10:08:33 AM

Its absolutely normal to start questioning these traditional casts –not only in this matter but in many other matters as well - when one experiences living in a different society and culture than the one he/she used to live in. and again its perfectly normal to try to adopt what sounds right and profound of this other society . But for people who are still living at his/her original country/society , things may be a little bit hard to change. But I believe time is a dominant factor, and its only a matter of time for many things to change.

#14
Tamara
Said
On: 7/3/2006 10:16:20 AM

Qwaider

I think its like Iman said, what do you want her to bring to the table?

As for the principle of it. the society is facing so much change that in some cases the brides father will pay for the wedding, and both families will cost share. it depends of the lady and her family and what you both agree on. times are changing and rules are not written in stone.

#15
salam
Said
On: 7/3/2006 10:42:20 AM

7abbaitha :"If the answer is that she's in it with her "Efforts"!!!

Honestly,you make sense!!Women should help out their husbands,or fiances in wedding expenses.But I think that when you are in a loving relationship then you would,of course as much as you can.The case being that most men are more highly paid than women,then it is only natural for them to be bringing n more to the table..just my 2 cents!

#16
Qwaider
Said
On: 7/3/2006 10:42:39 AM

Exactly Danah, as we grow emotionally and mentally, we have an obligation to question and challenge the norms that w have inherited

Tamara, Change is always happening. yet certain social demands resist this change. as I said, I'm not sure what would she bring to the table, I too was raised in a way that embraces man's role as provider of everything! From bread to all sort of pleasures!

#17
Qwaider
Said
On: 7/3/2006 10:52:27 AM

Salam, I agree with you. A love relationship is a different matter and people are willing to help out. But might hit a brick wall of male ego. As for getting paid less, I think in such situations, every penny counts no matter how little

#18
Ohoud
Said
On: 7/3/2006 11:28:54 AM

Sorry but I dont see any valid points portrayed in you rant. Nothing personal but thats just how I felt reading in.

When you talked about the "west", you said they share paying the expenses. Is that all? a financial issue?

Many families here share the house expenses, she works and he works as well. We're past the cave ages:)My sisters husband even helps out in the house

My aunts and uncles are Germans and I see how they live, I dont really see a big difference when it comes to a marriage. The principles are the same.The degree of freedom might be different but thats all case related.

In our family and Nabolsi culture the girls family is the one that financialy supports the engagment party and particulalry in our family we get her ready for the house of marriage aka clothes and other stuff needed(benjahizz al 3arous) and we also throw the dinner and then the husband throws the wedding party.

What we really need to worry about is what will each bring on the table intellectually:)

#19
Qwaider
Said
On: 7/3/2006 11:42:35 AM

Wow ... Ohoud ... that's nice
"My sisters husband even helps out in the house" WOW! That's such an achievement ;-) You talk about it as if it's so out of the ordinary. Not only does the poor guy works outside the house, but he's forced into slave labor at home too. Your sister must be a beacon of inspiration for women everywhere (just kidding)

It's really nice for men to assist their wives around the house. It's not just nice, I think it's a must and much needed. No one is questioning that

Hey with those rules Nabulsi brides must be flying off the shelves. But you and I know that's not the case

By the way, I'm not ranting, I'm questioning, I want to understand, and learn more. There's nothing wrong with not knowing, it's shameful if I don't seek help answering my questions (don't you think?)

#20
bakkouz
Said
On: 7/3/2006 12:00:12 PM

I join my voice to the women's rights group and call for equality! women should be made to pay the complete wedding expenses, total equality man ;)

#21
Ohoud
Said
On: 7/3/2006 12:01:52 PM

Qwaider, I see it as normal for a man to help out in the house, and I didnt mention it to get a "star" or a compliment for it,cause I see it as a perfectly normal thing that I will also expect in my future husband:)

That being said, I dont see anything wrong in your questioning, on the contrary its nice to read your thoughts and others on that matter, but I just didnt see a clear analogy drawn.

Meaning: what does the wife in the "west" get on the table that a women in the "east" wouldnt?

#22
Danah
Said
On: 7/3/2006 12:05:56 PM

Have you noticed there is no male contribution on those two posts dealing with marriage and relationships! I realize that Qwaider represents one side by bringing up such mind & relationship provoking topics .. but where is the other masculine points of view in all of this =D!

#23
Qwaider
Said
On: 7/3/2006 12:07:34 PM

Most live on dual incomes in the west, and if not, the mommy or wife in this case takes on a larger role. I even saw households where the wife is the actual bread earner while the man is taking care of the house, kids and his study. Not talking about a 70 year old woman who bought her self a 23 year old husband. These were 25 year old couple with 3 kids.

You must have missed when I said, "I'm not impressed" with the west and that I view our society as being light years ahead socially. But it's ok :). Now you've officially been reminded. Tawwli balek :D

#24
Qwaider
Said
On: 7/3/2006 12:10:59 PM

Danah My fellow men have forsaken me I guess :(
Or totally uninterested. Which is a serious indication. If we (young men on the threshold to make the bold move of getting a committed relationship) are not seeking guidance. Then that might be a symptom of real big issues

Or Maybe guys feel insecure about it... frankly I have no idea!

#25
Ohoud
Said
On: 7/3/2006 12:16:04 PM

lol, mtawleh bali:D I'm always serious when I discuss and quite opinionated. So I come through as "mish mtawleh bali":p

Anyhow, I didnt miss that, and I dont see anything wrong IF you were impressed. I'm just trying to brainstorm what could be expected to brought to that table (halaknaha lal tawleh:p)

Let me rephrase: what would you ;as a man; expect?

#26
Danah
Said
On: 7/3/2006 12:16:09 PM

Qwaider .. I think it might be more of the "insecurity issue" when discussing such matters .. but again ..who knows !

#27
jano
Said
On: 7/3/2006 12:17:37 PM

well, from the ppl i saw getting married and what i knew from my dad and mom with their marriage which i was kinda busy to attend :p e7em that both should share thing, for example, groom brings the house and some furn. and she maybe the curtains and maybe other lil stuff, i guess parents from both sides should focus on their kids happiness, not how to make the other family pay more or suffer more.. as long as the bride and groom are happy then everyone else should be, supporting them, that whats happening with ppl i know..

#28
Summer
Said
On: 7/3/2006 12:22:18 PM

after reading the above, a question to the ladies that posted their comments, what will you bring to the table after the guy pays for the wedding party and all the stuff that comes with it?i have a feeling that most of you young ladies here are not married..lets see what you think. thanks.
qwaider, sorry to interfere like this in your blog! hope to get some answers. have a great day everyone!

#29
Qwaider
Said
On: 7/3/2006 12:27:25 PM

Ohoud, If I knew why would I bother you with my questions? I am seeking knowledge. And habeebti .. please be as opinionated as it makes you feel comfortable. The idea is .. to get to hear every one's ideas

Danah, Sad huh?

Jano, Sadly, sometimes it's exactly what you said it shouldn't be. Like making the others suffer to make them feel how much their daughter is worth. Viewing that as a must for their "Social status". The sad part, if the groom gets into married life with such hard feelings, how do we expect them to get happier afterwords?

Summer, consider this your house, ask as you like

From all these comments and ideas I can definitely say it's SERIOUSLY a huge issue that is not being addressed. I'm glad I made this post

#30
lammoush
Said
On: 7/3/2006 2:40:40 PM

what i write here is not a comment 2 ur post, its more like an aditional question: men pay everything 4 the wedding, the house n all, then years later it goes by default that both the man and woman pay everything they have to get the house going (or maybe later they get a new one) on paper, he owns it all, and she owns nothing. COZ HE'S THE MAN! i've seen many many examples where a woman payed everything she had and did everything she could (contrary to what u claim traditions in our society) then wen they had extra money it was 4 him, and everything they owned was 4 him (bcoz of these traditions)and if they split she hits the street.
i dont see anything wrong with sharing wedding expenses (althought it seems different saying that than doing in in our society), and speaking of work i'm ambicious and trying 2 build a career. but i know a day will come where i would have a baby that i prefer not 2 leave for a stranger the first year or so b4 i get back 2 work, then yes my husband should be able 2 cover up the finantial part of our life.. otherwise lets adopt!!

#31
lammoush
Said
On: 7/3/2006 2:51:05 PM

and by the way i didnt get a chance 2 read all comments but i agree with summer, if u get with a partner where u have 2 think of these things then u better as well drop it with its headache, this is not what a relationship is supposed 2 based upon :) when u have a partner with which u agree on the headlines, these would go by default and u would get 2 injoy the day :)

#32
Qwaider
Said
On: 7/3/2006 2:52:17 PM

Or get adopted by bill gates :)

#33
sarah
Said
On: 7/3/2006 5:59:24 PM

Qwaider hi :)
what a subject wlooooooh
reallly a very sensitive one i dont know if its right but ill tell u something I LIVED :D im engaged from abt one year ,b4 engagement i lived my better year in love without any responsibility any worries or troubles ,from the time we started talking abt home,furnitures and those stuffs ,walllah 7aram all the men kind i dont know how people think especially in our country everything is flying ,prices r burning u need to work 24 on 24 to bring what u want
well this is a little from my experience :)
take care Qwaider ;)

#34
Qwaider
Said
On: 7/3/2006 9:23:04 PM

Yes sarah, that's right. Preparing for it, is the nastiest part. It's so much work. Some people might enjoy the efforts. But it doesn't make it any less of a job. You have to be running around like crazy to make ends meet!
God help us all

#35
Summer
Said
On: 7/3/2006 10:38:11 PM

Too much planning and preparing for the life ahead of you kills the adventure spirit!! be spontaneous in your actions and expressing your feelings because this adds to the sense of adventure and fun to the relationship. Also be honest about your relationship with your partner and for sure you will be okay. Bring a positive attitude to your relationship and work your way around the hurdles of life, because there will be many, but every problem has a way to solve it. And best of all KNOW in your heart that God will never let you down. These are my last words!

#36
Abed. Hamdan
Said
On: 7/3/2006 11:12:50 PM

shme3na Marriage ??

kennak 7atet 3ainak 3ala wa7de haik wella haik ;) ?? e3teref :P

#37
Qwaider
Said
On: 7/3/2006 11:18:56 PM

Thanks summer, I like to plan :D but be spontaneous on the implementation

Abboud ... I guess with so much pressure, I feel that I'm marching (we all are) towards that ;-)

#38
Abed. Hamdan
Said
On: 7/4/2006 12:09:35 AM

tab yallah 3al barake,

testa3jelesh bardo...take your time. balash etgaddeeha nakad :)

wallah e7na ( ana w my friends ) sayebna 3oqde mn el banat...we don't trust them...w mashyeen 3a mabda2 "eb3ed 3an el shar w '3anneelooo"...

msh mate3zemnaash !?

I have to sleep now...bokra 3indi zeft dawam...nighty ya 3arees ;)

#39
Qwaider
Said
On: 7/4/2006 12:54:19 AM

Abboud .. sweet dreams... Me no 3arees [YET] but .. women are a necessary evil in our lives HEHEHE :) Kidding kidding

As for Nakad, Dude, you can never run away from that. Nakad will follow you anywhere you go

#40
afaf
Said
On: 7/5/2006 12:34:25 AM

what each bring to table?? wow, u make it sound measurable!!
when i first got married, it took me sometime to adjust and compromise abit...but i invested in this marriage, not in a material way, this is whtt i mean...when both work in best of this new committment, they will succeed and yeah family, both of them help too...u donot get into material part, cuz things get ugly if someone is not happy...so a good understanding of each other and expectations of what each will be Bringing to the table will be fine to build a good marriage and life happily ever after...

#41
afaf
Said
On: 7/5/2006 4:50:34 AM

qwaider, Nakad?? Noway!!! he smiles all the time even when he feels down....believe me!!! as summer said, think positively dear... what is written there in ur book is there and take life much easier, i can understand men when it comes to women...but plz donot generalize...cuz not all ppl r alike...remember?? take it easy ya 3azizi...ok?? but i really feel waht u r going through...speaking of cold feet...