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« H-a-c-k-e-r FriendlyTen things you just can't blog about! »

The [un]real 40 year old virgin!

  • By: Qwaider

  • On:Tuesday, May 20, 2008 3:27:07 AM
  • In:Thoughts
  • Viewed: (4763) times

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    Rated 4.7/5 stars (57 votes cast)

    You know, it doesn't really matter how nice people appear to be at first glance. A few little conversations later and you can sure find a lot more about them.

    I found myself saying "backward" to someone I only recently met. Just when I heard the interesting word, "She has to be Veiled"

    Now, before anyone claims that I'm against veil, I just want to reassure everyone that I am not with or against, I'm with women making thier own mind about this. So leave me out of it!

    What captured my attention is the notice that "if she's veiled, then she's decent and honorable" and that kind of means that the rest are not!

    What made me burst in frustration was the 40 year old virgin that was saying these words!

    I'm not kidding, the guy is really 40 years old. Single and "looking". In fact, he's been in the "looking" state for 14 years.. He's claims to have never been with anyone ... etc!

    Now, I know for a fact, that there are many great guys out there who have been abstinent. I just have a feeling that this guy is really not one of these folks. He appears to be one of the guys who have been living thier lives by and large doing everything and "experimenting" with just about everything and when it's time to get married..... he wants the veiled one!

    If I recite the amount of unsolicited advice I got, I will need to fill up 15 more posts!

    If I go over the cliche's I had to endure from "I want a veiled one", to "I want to live next to the mosque because I want to go pray Isha and Fajr there" ...etc ..etc .. I would have to fill up couple more posts at least!

    It's quite sad that religious people resort to appearances to reassure others that they're the righteous, religious ones!

    God bless all the wonderful people I used to know in Jordan, you wouldn't know how religious they are, until the circumstances uncovers it. I don't recall any one of them "demanding" a veiled woman because they're "purer". No one would even DARE say something like that. That made me blow a fuse!! As I protested ... "Mutakhallef"! (backward thinking)

    As for going to the mosque for Fajr and Isha, what difference does it make? there is hardly any traffic at 4AM, so it doesn't matter how far you are, you can be there in 5 minutes!

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    • #1
    • KJ
    • Windows Firefox Browser
    • Said
    • On: 5/20/2008 11:55:35 AM
    3an jad enno ba2ara! LOOOL this is the most absurd thing I have heard in a while!

    3arrefni 3aleih and I will 3arfo 3ala veiled women who are anything but decent.

    Actually, I think that is why he wants a veiled woman :D
    • #2
    • Nassim - Marie
    • Windows Firefox Browser
    • Said
    • On: 5/20/2008 12:56:40 PM
    Happy to hear a guy saying that!

    There is a lot of people demanding vealed women for marriage, most of them are demanding coz they says they are purer ect, and you see them as you said living their life to the extremes but we cant deny that some of them are demanding because of their environment and their believes.
    But for sure veil is not a mark or proof of PURITY AT ALL.. There is a lot of veiled (m7ajabat o m5amarat) who has interesting stories..
    Except for the "showing off" part which is pretty obvious, I see nothing wrong..
    What if he wants his wife-to-be to be veiled? Total freedom of choice, just like somebody else won't even accept the idea that she is or could become veiled!

    Don't wanna look like preaching here, coz I'm not. But we all know that hijab (plus every other thing) is a must (far'9 ya3ny). It doesn't mean that unveiled girls are bad. not at all. neither it means that being veiled makes u an angle. It's a "full package"
    • #4
    • MD
    • Suse OS Firefox Browser
    • Said
    • On: 5/20/2008 3:40:45 PM
    Muslims are in love with showing that they worship Allah, so really you shouldnt get frustrated, let him get the veiled, and live near the mosque, if he is doing it for God, then God is the one to judge.

    Now to mention my opinion, Hijab is important in the Arab world now, because many men there are all eyes, they know nothing about being polite and keep looking like they never saw women, they stare like animals, but is it important in USA or Europe where people are more civilized and know that its not polite to stare? I don't think so. Hijab is a protection, so if there is no one to protect yourself from, why use it?
    MD, Back in the 9a7aba days, people were waaaaay more polite than now adays, why was the hijab a must back then??!
    • #6
    • MD
    • Suse OS Firefox Browser
    • Said
    • On: 5/20/2008 5:26:30 PM
    Adoosh, did you read the only one verse in Quran about Hijab , the very one verse about it says it all, more polite?? you are kidding me, if they were more polite why would God send a religion at all?
    anyway here is the verse:
    يا أيها النبي قل لأزواجك وبناتك ونساء المؤمنين يدنين عليهن من جلابيبهن ذلك أدنى أن   يعرفن فلا يؤذين  وكان الله غفورا رحيما
    does this verse say that he is asking them to put it in order not to be hurt , where hurt is explained in many books as being mixed with slaves and night women, so they are not just "not polite", they mixed between Mohammad's wives and slaves, so some of them were brainless, hungry animals. For that reason God asked women to cover. so I think that when the reason disappears, the order can too.  
    MD,
    Word of the day: Context!
    Back then, the tradition was that slave females are forced to be unveiled, so part of the Hijab's role in that society was to distinguish a free woman from a slave.

    The argument of being impolite and harmful really applies to the western societies as well! Raping rates in the west? Sexual harassment? So the reason didn't really disappear and will never :)
    • #8
    • 4 gotton
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 5/20/2008 6:06:12 PM
    Well i think the most important place on this earth to be veiled is the U.S.A. and it dont matter what the reason is, It may be to protect your self from those pigs out there or simply it is recommended by Allah in either case it surely wont hurt you. But because this place and its people are slaves to fashion we except to live in it.In arab or muslim countries we dont have to worry as much as if we are in the western countries That is because we have a society that allows us to to put hijab without contradictions. I use to wear hijab here in the usa and was humiliated daily I was called so many horrible names and told to get out from usa and im from here. I could not even find a job I lost  some friends alot has happened to me . So i took that off and started acting like a westerner and even worse things  have happened to me, So now i think its time to put it back on  and who cares what others think. Im not better than the prophet muhammads wives.. Soon i will be gone from this place i want to say good luck in your blog mr q . Its been a slice even tho no one has ever talked to me here and i have been ignored mostly. I wish you well and all your people here. and to me i enjoyed  some of your topics. take care and ma salam
    • #9
    • MD
    • Suse OS Firefox Browser
    • Said
    • On: 5/20/2008 6:23:20 PM
    Adoosh,
    What do you mean they were forced not to be veiled if the veil did not exist before this verse? i am talking about the time before this verse, because this is how we can find out the reason it came for. does the reason in you world happen after the result??
    this verse came because arabs were hurting the free women, so God asked them to get veiled, this is what i said before, and still find true.

    There is a place between veiled women and bitchy-wearing women, there are women who are not veiled and not bitchy by the way, I did not ask women to go out half naked, there will be a chance then to be raped by hungry animals.
    The raping rate in Qatar is higher than that in Greece, and that in Saudi Arabia is HIGHER than in Austria, (google it) So where does the veil come here? is it the factor that stops raping?  So i really dont know how helping is the veil NOW, there surely is a relation between "openness" and raping, but also a clear relation i see between civilization and raping when I compare Saudia with Austria. If the reason will go or not is not for you to decide, its up to the human race and how much they wanna be civilized.
    I think that my point is clearly proved in comparing a civilized country (Austria) with MUSLIM country (Saudi Arabia). Got it?
    • #10
    • MD
    • Suse OS Firefox Browser
    • Said
    • On: 5/20/2008 6:29:44 PM
    Forgotten "In arab or muslim countries we dont have to worry as much as if we are in the western countries That is because we have a society that allows us to to put hijab without contradictions."

    West is NOT USA, Europe is way more civilized than USA, more democratic, and human is more respected, so i think you meant only USA.
    is it true that no one ever talked to you? ach come on, I am sure it wasnt meant like that. :), anyway if you decided to put the Hijab again, just don't take it off again again :) and dont put it unless you want it.
    4gotton, you've not been 4gotton :)
    You're the second person I know who was forced out of her Hijab to be able to fit in. It's really hard in the US, but it highly depend on the local.

    Folks, what got me upset with what he said was that he automatically assumed all unveiled women to be almost slutty and not up to his fine standard. I felt really offended because, well my mother is not veiled, two of my three sisters are not veiled. Does that mean they 're not pure or decent!? That's what got me really upset with what he said
    Good post, I thought it was applicable to quite a few countries. I'm not religious, and I don't even pretend to be. I tell people straight at their face that I'm not. But that doesn't mean that I'm totally ignorant of it. I dislike people who judge other people by their outer appearances. Unless you're dressed like a skank - that's a different story.
    • #13
    • KJ
    • Windows Firefox Browser
    • Said
    • On: 5/20/2008 8:53:17 PM
    Q, that's what upset me too. But why should you be pissed at someone as shallow as him - he clearly cannot think beyond an appearance.
    I don't think veiled means necessarily decent, but if he's really looking for a religious woman, then unveiled means not religious simply because the veil isn't optional. So a woman who decides not to wear it automatically falls under the secular category.
    Most labels placed on hijab are placed by men, whether or not they're in favor of it. Just an observation how men really like to push themselves into every aspect of a woman's life.
    MD,
    Read history dear :)
    Back then, the head cover was a common practice for both women and men. Except for slaves who were to stay bare-headed. I.e. A form or another of the veil existed before the verse, even before Islam itself. The verse only formalized it, set it's criteria, and made it a must for women.

    Finally, It's not me, you, or anybody else that decides on his own if the need for some "far'9" has gone so it's no more applicable! This way everyone would have his tailored version of Islam depending on what he/she sees!
    • #17
    • MD
    • Suse OS Firefox Browser
    • Said
    • On: 5/21/2008 5:44:36 PM
    Adoosh,
    I really can not get your point. Do you think that Hijab is a must just because Allah says so, and that Allah does not relate it to free women being hurt by mixed with slaves back then?
    I said Veil and meant Hijab, the whole Hijab that is mentioned in the verse, Did Hijab exist before Islam between Arabs? even if it did, are you reading the verse? Doest it say why God asks them to use Hijab? isn't this what matters? would God have asked them to put it if Arabs were all polite and did not mix the free and the slave and did not hurt the free women? Read if you like Tafseer El Jalalein and see what it mentions about men annoying free women back then, and mixing them with slaves. read it and if you dont like it please clear your point and tell me clearly what you want, Im not sure we disagree, we just are approaching things from different angles.

    It is up to us to think WHY, or just sleep on things, Hijab may be in your way a Must, but who said that you are the right one? Ya everyone should have his tailored version of Islam, and take responsibility of it. There are those who dont wanna think, and who are too lazy, they just open the Hadeeths and do whatever it says, Time factor is a zero for them, NOTHING, they live in Mohammad's time in fact. And there are those who think, because brain is not to be wasted, they analyze things, they may reach a right result or the wrong result, at least they think. Do you think Allah prefers the first type? (eljanne msoagara without thinking, nice isnt it?)

    I can not say that fasting is as "Fardh" as Hijab, the way God stated them is totally different if you ever realized it, in Fasting God said (كتب عليكم الصيام) and in Hijab he said: do it BECAUSE..., if both are the same for you, then its your way of Islam, and i respect it, and i know it is important in the Arab world now. But I simply do not see that those orders are the same, the second one contains a reason, so my humble brain says that when the reason dies, the order doesn't stand anymore, and Ya Human can be responsible and civilized enough to know if the reason died or not, if the Human can not do that, then tell me the difference between animals and human.

    MD, it's not one of the vague rules that are open to interpretation. Islam has a user's manual (quran/hadith), and the 3awra is clearly defined. Either someone follows it or not. The veil is just a visible hint that you can see immediately even before officially meeting someone. Even as an atheist, I think of veiled women much less in a sexual manner, and that is partly the point.
    MD,
    ياعزيزي, جزء لا يتجزّأ من الإسلام هو الإيمان بال "غيبيّات"..
    الإيمان بمُطلَق عِلم الله سبحنه وتعالى وقدرته..
    كلّ الإسلام لا يتعارض مع العقل, لكن ليس كلّه يدركه العقل! جميع الأحكام الشرعيّة لها حكمة من تشريعها, بعضه نعلمه والبعض الآخر لم نعلمه بعد وقد لا نعلمه أصلاً, لكن هذا لا ينفي وجود الحكمة حتى إن لم تدركها عقولنا, وإلاّ أصبح التشريع ضرباً من العبث, هذا أوّلاً..
    ثانياً, بعض الأحكام وصل إلينا, إمّا بالعقل أو النقل, بعضٌ من حكمة تشريعها, لكن هذا لا يعني أنّ ماوصلنا هو "فقط" الحكمة من الموضوع وليس شيْ آخر أيضاً.. يعني: حسب منطقك نفترض جدلاً أن حكمة تجنيب النساء الأذى عن طريق الحجاب لم تعد قائمة في بعض المجتمعات, هذا لا يوصِل ضمنياً لسقوط فرض الحجاب, لإنه قد تكون له حِكَمٌ أًخرى لم نُخبَر بها أو لم تدركها عقولنا.. العقل البشريّ لبس كاملاً, أفترض أنّك تدرك هذا وتؤمن به..

    والمثال الذي طَرَحتَهُ عن فرض الصيام ليس موفّقاً, لأنّه حسب الآية - بما أنّك سبق وقلت في غير مكان أنّك لاتؤمن بالسنّة - لم يرد في الآية أيّ سبب لفرض الصيام! ومرّة أُخرى, قياساً على منطقك, أنا لا أرى سبباً لتجويع أنفسنا طول النهار!

    الفكرة هي إنّو مش كل شي "لازم" يركب ع مخّنا كشرط مسبق للإيمان بوجوبه أو حرمته, أنت بهذا تنفي الجزء الغيبي من الإيمان..
    • #20
    • MD
    • Suse OS Firefox Browser
    • Said
    • On: 5/22/2008 11:24:08 AM
    Obaid, Everything should be explained and interpreted, and everything is under question, if you want to build a believer. Islam's user manual is Quran in the first place, to be taken and applied. Hadeeth comes in the second place to give examples, what to do in similar case, but not to be applied as it is. because you can not apply a book written by a man who lived 1500 years ago as if he knows what will happen now, If you bring Mohammad (with his ideas, hadeeths) to live now, I am sure that you will be able to deal with life much better than him now, I mean that he was good in his time, the best in fact, guided by Allah, but it is his time. And he will have to change his ideas (Hadeeths) to apply to this time. Another thing is that Hadeeth can not be assured 100% that it is right, God never mentioned that he will keep Hadeeth the way he said he will keep Quran. So For all these reasons, it is a vague issue that should be interpreted.

    If you think less in veiled women does not mean that others do the same. What if a time comes where women are the stronger and with more control, (genetic error lets say or a chemical weapon), will women still be veiled? Or should we apply the veil on men then if women started sexual harassments against men? This is just an extreme example to show you that we should understand why we do things? for reasons of course.  

    Now I know you can through all what I said in my face, as I am talking about symbols you do not believe in, so I wouldnt complain then if you do.
    • #21
    • MD
    • Suse OS Firefox Browser
    • Said
    • On: 5/22/2008 11:35:06 AM
    Adoosh,
    I said before that the only Leap of faith is that God exists and that he sent Quran, I do believe very well as i said in what God asks me to do in Quran, ONLY. because I agree very well with you, that he knows better than me, What I said i need a reason for is what comes from Mohammad, because I realise the time difference, and I am not sure he said what is written in Hadeeths. I also find it logical that if God "tkarram 3aleina" and mentioned why he wants something for a REASON, then he is sending us a message also to think and apply the thing only when the reason stands.

    Other than that I think you should believe in the Human thinking abilities, it is the part of God in us, it is the soul our generous God gave no one on earth but us, so just have some faith in it, and in the end, everyone is responsible for the results he gets.

    Finally I do say that it is a faith leap i have in God and Quran, but I do have my clear reasons (logical ones) that show me I should have this leap of faith.  
    MD not at all, in fact although this fact has always been clear to me, I've never heard a muslim consider that something Mohammad suggested at his time may be unsuitable for this day and age.

    However I would also extend this argument to the Quran as it seems to have been written for Mohammad's age as well, but that's just the way I see it.
    MD,
    You missed my whole point. Or simply ignored it!
    Having the reason mentioned in Quran does NOT imply that it (or they) is the only reason for something. And not having it mentioned doesn't as well imply that there's no reason!
    Based on Quran ONLY, would you please tell me why do Muslims fast?
    And WHY do we do it the particular way we do? (i.e no eating or drinking at all from dawn till sunset)
    • #24
    • MD
    • Suse OS Firefox Browser
    • Said
    • On: 5/22/2008 12:39:24 PM
    Adoosh, I would not ignore it :)
    I assume that mentioning a reason for something means that this is the reason, otherwise it should be mentioned that this is not the only reason.
    why do Muslims fast? I answered this in the very last answer to you. by the way God says in this verse:
    يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا كُتِبَ عَلَيْكُمُ الصِّيَامُ كَمَا كُتِبَ عَلَى الَّذِينَ مِنْ قَبْلِكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُونَ
    Do you see any reasons? لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُونَ
    how about also read in the previous holy books and see if there are reasons there, God hinted at them didn't he? Anyway if it had no reason then I would still do it as i have a leap of faith in God and in Quran, but not in Hadeeth.
    I think we disagree only on one thing, Hadeeth. Now i have a question for you, what book do you take for hadeeth? you are standing for it, but which book do you depend on? what if it had one mistake, will you then get scared? i mean it has orders of killing in some cases as a punishment, which God himself didnt ask for. Would you take the chance then and apply the killing order? and kill someone depending on this book? would you if you just found one little mistake in it take this chance ?
    • #25
    • Um Omar
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 5/22/2008 3:14:07 PM
    Thank you Hani for being the clear voice of reason in this post...

    I think there is a portion of society, at least here in the ME where you don't have to ask if he wants a veiled woman or not, it is a given.  If you are practicing and you want to marry, you at least want someone who is as practicing as yourself or more.  It cracks me up when women say their son prays....well, God I hope so!  I mean something like that shouldn't even be mentioned in certain circles.  It is a given fact.  
    MD,
    Now you're contradicting yourself my friend!
    What you said for the fasting verse also applies to the veil verse!
    يا أيها النبي قل لأزواجك وبناتك ونساء المؤمنين يدنين عليهن من جلابيبهن ذلك أدنى أن   يعرفن فلا يؤذين
    See the reason? ذلك أدنى أن   يعرفن فلا يؤذين
    This still applies today an will still apply for ever, even in western societies! When you see a veiled woman say in Europe you won't invite her for a drink in a pub, would you? Why? Because they're known "ذلك أدنى أن   يعرفن فلا يؤذين"


    Now the Hadeeth part,
    قال الإمام أبو حنيفة النعمان: "إذا صحّ الحديث فهو مذهبي"
    لاحظ إنّو ماحكى إذا ورد الحديث في الكتاب الفلاني أو رواه الشخص الفلاني!
    في قواعد صارمة وعلوم قائمة بحدّ ذاتها وضعها العلماء للتحقّق من صحّة الأحاديث وعدل الرواة, الموضوع مش بهالبساطة..

    بعدين تعال جاي, القرآن وصل إلينا بنفس الطريق والقواعد الذي بها وصلت إلينا الأحاديث, شو اللي بضمنلك إنّو القرآن من الله والأحاديث لأ؟ هل هو مجرّد الآية اللي بتحكي إنو القرآن محفوظ؟
    • #27
    • MD
    • Suse OS Firefox Browser
    • Said
    • On: 5/22/2008 4:54:31 PM
    Adoosh ,
    We have a vacation here today, but the weather is bit strange, so im lucky to have you entertain me here today :).

    The first part, Oh God, lets say that the reason for fasting is لعلكم تتقون , so its a polishing of our devoutness, so it ends when our life ends unless you think you can become mistake-less. the second order depends on communities and how much they wanna be good, and in my point of view it ends when we get a civilized polite community. I think we can get it, you think we can not get it, you think that the west has high raping rates and i think its not necessarily because of the veil, the proof was comparing Austria with Saudi Arabia, remember? We do not have to convince each other of what we think in this point, really. I am an optimistic person who thinks that human can be someday civilized enough. thats all.

    The second part, Do you know the meaning of "Leap of faith"? did I not mention it? i think i did. it is the answer for how i know Quran is right.

    قال الإمام أبو حنيفة النعمان: "إذا صحّ الحديث فهو مذهبي now this is what ?
    i mean really what is this? it is like watching a football game and saying I follow the team that will win in the end, really !!!!
    the "right" hadeeths if you ever read about it exist in two books , Muslim and Bokhari, some say only Bokhari, those are the two who as you said followed the very accurate rules to make sure hadeeths are right. Now my question again, what will you do if you find a mistake in one of them? if one mistake is there i will lose faith in the whole book. specially that it contains death punishments, i can not go for that. its a huge huge responsibility.
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