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Worthy of the honor

  • By: Qwaider

  • On:Friday, January 18, 2008 7:12:31 PM
  • In:Thoughts
  • Viewed: (4179) times

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    Rated 4.6/5 stars (91 votes cast)

    Warning, extremely chauvinistic, Arab-mentality post!

    Why are we as men, required, no mandated to provide so much for the ladies and continue to do so for the rest of our lives? Way after the glamour and the sweet coating is all gone.

    Why are we as men required to work hard, earn money, to prepare for the hard times ahead, starting a family, while women contribution starts only after marriage, and sometimes only with childbirth, and sometimes never?

    In the days of the cave man, men used to go out and hunt. They would come back with the yummy food that can't be collected from trees. It needed physical strength, it needed stamina and patience. Men were effective hunters. They were able to bring home the meat

    Women, might have taken part of these activities, but the strength of the males probably forced them to take a secondary role. Watching on the sides as men risked their lives during the hunts.

    If the female wanted some of that meat, she had to give some favors to the man. And they did. While most animal females would only allow the strongest of all the males to mate with her. The human female had a similar demand. Only the most worthy could mate with her. The guy who can bring her the more than others.

    Then a genius idea came out, that is a way to get the woman a lifetime supply of meat, for her, and (at that time) her kids. She had the gift to bring more humans to the tribe. That idea was, marriage, these same principles are in effect TODAY, 40,000 years after.

    Laws came in to regulate, culture barged in to add definitions, and religions came to add holiness to the union. But it has been always the same

    Until now...

    Women, no longer need males to hunt for them, they can do that on their own. Some are more successful than most men.. This confusion is sending ripples culturally and socially. Women -really- don't need the protection, help, or free "stuff" that men (only) had access to. So there had to be a different way to "bribe" the woman to show one's worth. Welcome, to the modern marriage system...

    This system in principle is to have men prove their worth before they're allowed anywhere close to a female (In the west, few drinks overcome that, but in the east, it's a whole other story). The concept of worth evolved. And no man could ever manage to get married just by willing it at any age. The society won't accept it, her family won't accept it, and yes, she won't accept it.

    How many 22 year old males, fresh out of university have we seen get married? Compare that to the number of 22 year old females who get married... That 22 year old male is still worthless in the view of many, he still can't provide value for the woman, who get this instinctively.

    Hold on, we just said that women, don't need males to provide for them!

    But men still need to prove their worth -first- as a right of passage into manhood/marriage-hood, by... building their worth, first!

    This inequality doesn't seem to be going anywhere, any time soon, in the eastern cultures. (Women don't even see it, it's a right, it has been forever in their favor, so why demand any-less rights?)

    By the age of 27 or 28 a smart-hardworking-lucky-male has earned his worth, and is ready to find that 22 year old female that will take all of that as an advance to accept him as her man. It takes most men in the Arab world more than 5 years to prove their worth. To collect enough prey to satisfy the modern cave woman, and the insane modern society demands. (If you're daddy paid for all of this, it's OK, you can play too, spoiled kid)

    Can someone explain to me WHY is it customary for the groom to buy the woman gold, gifts, and the wedding (dress, party, and the other 10,000 other little things)? Can someone explains to me the concept of the diamond ring? Why is it a prerequisite for a man getting married to a woman? Why does a man need to "Open a house" (yifta7 bait) not the woman? WHY for the love of god does the man have to prove his worth BEFORE getting married, while any female 16 year old or more will do. She doesn't need to have anything, no education, no money, no experience, NOTHING, except being genetically born female.

    A small calculation gives me a startling discovery.

    A 27 year old man, with 50,000 JD in the bank, a good job an apartment, a car, at least 5000JD worth gold, life experience. Is equivalent to a 22 year old lady, no job, with 0 cash, no car, sharing bedroom with 2 sisters and no experience. (And I only chose 22, not 18)

    I said equivalent because I think after uniting them in marriage, they become one!

    Why can't it be a 27 year old dude with a 27 year old female with the same everything? Yes, the male won't accept, she's too old. He earned enough to qualify for that 22 year old. Who is WORTH MORE than a 27 year old male or female regardless of everything else they achieve.

    Then WHY can't a 22 year old female with a 22 year old male be equivalent? Ahh, Yes, the female won't accept, he didn't prove his worth, yet! He's not her equal...

    It seems that men, have to give so much up, just to get into this heaven. While women get so much to convince them to go to hell. I wonder, who's view of marriage is right?

    This "prove your worth" part, have driven the age of marriage in the Arab societies, to the thirties. Because those dream 27 year old guys, are in very short supply. Because, as it seems, 22 year old females are worth way more than males their age.

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    • #1
    • أنونيموس
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 1/18/2008 7:39:05 PM
    Well i'm feeling rather smug after reading that last sentence :)
    It bothers me however that you're thinking a 16 year old is just as qualified for marriage as the rest of them- based solely on her gender. You can answer to better than that yourself.
    Our society was constructed that way, but it's beginning to change. You see alot more people of the same age getting married today than before, and usually both of them end up being breadwinners. But yes they are usually two 26 year olds who have established themselves to some extent. You do not see 22 year old couples doing that unless mummy and daddy finance them. It isn't feasible or even possible with Jordan's salaries otherwise. A high schooler working nights here earns more than the average person with college degrees in the East.
    I'll agree that we tend to overdo wedding extravaganza's because it's that once in a lifetime event that you want to gloss up to perfection. I also think that it's the family that does the nagging in that aspect- the people wanting to get married usually don't care less, but the families always have to make sure it's something up to their son/daughter's par, something they can brag about infront of people. But it's their son/daughter that will suffer the consequences when the "itjawaz w idfa3 bil taqseet" scenario happens. THEY will not make their kids commit to the same mistake they made, one would hope. That means we're a couple of generations away from big changes...
    Dude, I'm just stating an obvious fact -in the eyes of the society- a female, regardless of her age, is capable of getting married to a king.

    If change will take couple of generations, this definitely means that anyone reading this article now, or in the next 20 years will miss out on it. In other words. WE'RE SCREWED!
    • #3
    • أنونيموس
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 1/18/2008 8:16:39 PM
    Don't be calling me dude, i'm a 22 year old female :) Haha.
    Nobody's really screwed unless they bring it onto themselves. The majority thinks that way but there are plenty of people who know better. Just commit to that type of person!
    Ahhhh, lucky you! I thought you're one of us "Screwed males"
    would you like to swap? Seriously! Swap? PLEASE?
    LOL. Maybe the answer to your question would be becuse you're a MAN! Dont men use that for everything else? Why cant I move out and you can, because you're a man! why can't I go out partying all night and you can, because you're a man. and II am a woman, that stays home and waits on her dreams to be married to do them. Because in order to stay with high qualities and morals, I need to stick to living hell of hearing my mother say "when you get married, you'll do whatever you and your husband want" This IS why, because my parents... expect a better or equal living for me from what I lived in their house. But on another note, I dont agree with the rock size diamond ring, altough every girl wishes to have one but hey zircone is FINE! You cant blame women, the problem is simply a societal dilemma because we set the norms too high, especially as Middle Easterns, damn striaght my son/daughter better have the best wedding in town that for the next 3 decades it'll be a story to tell... because our society DEPENDS on show, we're not logic neither we're able to understand the true meaning of marraige through our religion. We have simply lost it. If you and your wife-to-be DARE to have a small dinner instead of a wedding now you'll BE the talk of the town for the next 3 decades for being so cheap! its all demented mentalities my friend.
    I'm not, in anyway, blaming the woman .. I'm just honestly, wondering. How my worth is equated to that of a 16 (or 18, or 20, or 22) year old that has done absolutely nothing in her life. YET the whole society sees her as fit for me! And I'm not saying there aren't many fascinating women out there. But god forbid a guy who's 22 approach their 16 year old jewel, they would throw him out of the house

    Besides, Not all men are always out partying all night. Look at me, I stay home more than I go out for a million reason, the least of which is that I value my time more than I would allow it to be wasted like that.
    Asides from all the financial statments that could go into this subject ( be able to pay at least for rent of a house, food, and utilities), a 22 year old male (for the most part) is really not ready to be married mentally.. maybe physically he is bas not psychologically, I feel that women mature at an earlier age especially in the Middle East because they are raised up to be that way, to be able to carry out a task of a married lady.

    And I wasn't saying all men are out partying, I was just giving an example. we could use another one, you're allowed to go out even if you dont want to, and im not allowed even if I wanted to lol.
    Do you want to switch? I would ... you can have all the going out, and not marrying early stuff.

    Why can't a 22 year old get married? how come a girl is capable of being a mother by the age of 18 and a guy still can't be married by 22!?

    I don't know man ... I just .. find it weird!

    I remember when I was 22, and I wanted to marry my university sweetheart .. her stupid father said NO, he got her married to her cousin who was 27 or 28 at the time. And that was the end of it

    If he only knew ...
    I understand, you got a point believe me. But its just easier said than done. lol qwaider all the arguing for a broken heart, aww :/ sorry... you're probably better off lol.
    Batoul, I had way too many broken hearts... I don't get hurt anymore .. I'm the one doing all the hurting now... what doesn't break you ...

    I have a relative who was a father of 3 by the age of 22. (as you can see, he's the benchmark)

    But as you said, I'm way better now than where I would have ended had I got married when I was 22
    Women no longer sit home doing nothing, women no longer depend that much on the husband.. wives are becoming independent, they work just like  their husbands.. but not only work, on top of working they have all the house chores (which Arab men hardly help with), they have the kids to teach and take care of, and not only that but to take care of the husband too!!! so you can never compare between the two! On the contrary, nowadays women do double the work men do, if not triple in some cases.
    and by the way.. a house with no woman, is a mess. if she leaves for a couple of days ONLY, the man would get lost. She's the one who's  handling everything inside and the one who's in control..
    Interesting stuff Dima .. :)
    First of all I said, "Women, no longer need males to hunt for them, they can do that on their own. Some are more successful than most men", that's what I meant.

    But this whole thing is about the process prior, and leading to the marriage. What happens after that is important, but not related. We can discuss about it at a later time I am sure. (because I will probably bring it up :))

    As for "just like" I have to disagree. The majority will not be working "just like" their husbands. Check what I said, 27 to 22? How in the world can she be providing anything straight out of collage IF she even cared to get a job.

    But you know what? Fine, if all of this is the case, and she actually DOES have a job and makes money then GREAT, will she share her earnings with him so that they can build a decent life?

    Hmmmm, with very few exceptions, I don't think so
    • #14
    • Anisa
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 1/19/2008 3:57:47 AM
    It doesn't matter if the current environment allows women to no longer need males to hunt for them'.  Women and men are programmed to seek out certain qualities from their partner.  Children are crucial to the survival to our species so men prefer (in this order) attractiveness,  committment, and social skills while women prefer committment, social skills, and resources.

    As you said, a man who was a good catch in the evolutionary past was one who had high status in a hunting tribe.  Today a man who is a good catch is one who provides jewellery, diamond ring, etc.  Isn't it a step of good faith if an older man can provide a strong sense of security to an attractive, younger, very fertile woman before marriage?  

    Often a woman is vulnerable when she becomes pregant and/or breastfeeding -- it is very hard on the mother as it requires a lot of her time and energy. This vulnerability makes her financially dependent (to some extent) on her husband to provide for her and her kids, especially if they decide plopping them in daycare is not an ideal situation. It is especially true that the woman is dependent on the man in the western world because we women do not have the social supports that are present in middle eastern cultures.  We are more isolated. Woman are also more vulnerable as we become older, our attractiveness fades..and if we left the workforce for any period of time, it is more difficult to reenter so we have lost years of pay, we suffer age discrimination, lower pay for equal work, and so on, so it would seem women still would need men to help provide for them well into the marriage.  Also, if once wants to throw religion into the equation, women are given much less inheritance then anyone else, so how it fair if they are expected to financially contribute to the marriage but nothing can be adjusted for her should her husband pass away?


    By the way, if wife soes have a job and make money she is under no obligation, islamically speaking, to share her earning to enjoy a higher standard of living.   Also, how is it fair for a woman to share her earnings with him but she is saddled with the responsiblity of housework and looking after children?   How many Arab men do you know are willing to change a wet bed at three in the morning because your toddler didn't make it to the washroom?  Finally, we see the result of men and women choosing to marry/live together in the west and then both are working but they want a higher standard of living and do not want the inconvience of children, so they limit the number of children --so witness the decline of certain populations (western, european)
    Let me throw this out once again. This is all discussing stuff even before the man is in the same room with the woman! So much is demanded of him for this honor

    And please, would you be more objective when talking about matters of inheritance, there are many cases when the males might get less than the females. It all depends on the situation. So lets not get into that subject here and now.

    If the woman is not contributing in the marriage because she's she's afraid not to get anything if he passed away, she can keep all her contributions in her name!

    Lastly, can we stop this crap about men not doing anything around the house!!? Of ALL MY FRIENDS every single one of them changes diapers, and helps around the house! Single people have their house nice and tidy, and invite MARRIED couples to dinner from time to time! Not everyone is going to live like a pig if his wife goes away for couple of days (sorry for the tone of that last sentence)
    • #16
    • Anisa
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 1/19/2008 5:57:54 AM

    I don't think my previous comment was completely useless, you are wondering why a 22 year old woman has more options than a 22 year old man when it comes to marriage, and I mentioned that our behaviours are driven by years of evolution and design that ultimately dictates to both genders what qualities to seek from each other...You suggest a double standard exists but there is none --we all know what Donald Trump wants from Melania and what Melania wants from Donald -- in fact she is on the record saying his wealth was one of the reasons why she married him.  


    Also that is an interesting statement you made when you said "...because, as it seems, 22 year old females are worth way more than males their age..."  ,  well *some* woman in certain cultures are *still* looked at as inferior, less valued, and less favored then that of the boy for most of their lives until she is ready for marriage.  I just think it's an interesting twist that later in life that a marriagable woman be considered to have more 'value' when all her life she has been looked down upon by virtue of being female.

    The first thing you asked on your post was 'Why are we as men, required, no mandated to provide so much for the ladies and continue to do so for the rest of our lives?'

    In my previous comment I was just giving a few answers, right or wrong as they may be, for that question you asked.  My answer was absolutely related to your article.  A man's 'worthiness' is a factor since WOMEN STILL DO NEED MEN to 'hunt' for them after marriage if she gets pregant, nurses, or raises them until they go to preschool, which remains a strong possiblity after marriage.  This is precisely the reason why NO double standard exists.

    I am only saying that the woman is in a vulnerable position after marriage, so it makes sense for her to consider a man who is in a good economic position, and usually older men -- succesful due to luck or brains or social apptitude -- have the funds to prove his 'worthiness'.  Of course he has to be a good character too! Not only that but families know that money can be the number one issue between husband and wife after the marriage -- so families want someone who can provide adequately for his wife (depending on each others' social class/economic background/upbringing).  
    Anisa, thank you very much for all your explanations. I highly value your words.
    I already know all of this, but it still appears to me that men are providing way more into the marriage way before it even materializes. It's not like he's providing now, and once they're married it's going to be a good equal contribution. No, it's now and forever! Isn't that a little bit unfair?
    By the way, I was writing a different comment earlier, and accidentally deleted it, so you got the "enraged" shorter pissed off edition.
    • #18
    • Anisa
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 1/19/2008 6:36:36 AM
    No worries :)
    I knew it. From your ping pong discussion with Batoul, I already noticed that you are speaking because of a bitter experience.

    While I agree to some extent with most of you said, I still believe that there are still some decent humble families out there who would judge a person by character rather than by how much he is worth.
    It puzzles me folks! Seriously, so you dropped the whole issue and all the ideas to consider my motives for writing it?

    Seriously, I'm not longer bitter about this, I'm just saying that I've experienced this before, like I experienced a million other things. My experience wasn't all that great, and the stupid parents actually screwed their daughter's life by getting her married to that bozo. But she did, and I moved on, 392 times over :)

    I'm sure there are fantastic families out there. In fact, when my brother-in-law now proposed to my sister, he had to borrow money from my father which was so gracious to actually loan him to perform the wedding and carry the expenses. Not only did my father share the expense, he carried most of it.  In fact, my father did similar stuff to every single one of my sisters. He gave each an apartment. Now, I'm sure he's not the only one who did that. But seriously, how many people you know do things like that to their daughters! (Heck I didn't even get an apartment and I'm his only son) :)
    • #21
    • Ahmad
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 1/19/2008 3:14:41 PM
    Qwider ‘Can someone explain to me WHY is it customary for the groom to buy the woman gold, gifts, and the wedding (dress, party, and the other 10,000 other little things)? Can someone explain to me the concept of the diamond ring? Why is it a prerequisite for a man getting married to a woman? Why does a man need to "Open a house" (yifta7 bait) not the woman? WHY for the love of god does the man have to prove his worth BEFORE getting married, while any female 16 year old or more will doShe doesn't need to have anything, no education, no money, no experience, NOTHING, except being genetically born female’

    I always ask myself these questions. I think the answer comes from Islam and traditions.  It says ' Man has to provide everything to start family and women are not required to contribute in that'. I could not argue with that but this accompany with conditions to organize rights in the house. For example, wife should not go out or work without permission from her husband. when groom and bride agree to follow Islamic traditions,man has to pay for everything for marriage. What it is irritating me that women organizations who call for equal right between women and men. I know there are a lot of women who are abused by men. In the same time, it is hard to see organization calling for men right. Sometime, I wish that we follow civil marriage rather that Islamic one. Since we don not follow Islam truly, the law and tradition should change. It sound un-acceptable but we need to  face the truth. The world has change and we live in capitalism age. You know that in Arab world, they apply Sharia law on family matters and leave other. This is wrong because either you follow the whole system or not.
    JAD POST Ra2e3! one of the best!!
    wallah you have no idea how its going to be hard from us(newly graduated) to get what we want in life these days..
    even a 27 year old male..cant afford anything these days..due to the highly priced stuff!!
    any apartment..is 100k atleast!! anyone of them!
    the only way to get married..is if your parents helped you!!Thats for sure!
    and whats sucks here is that the women dont give a shit about that..
    • #23
    • Anisa
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 1/19/2008 6:09:07 PM
    Just to let some men know not all woman are golddiggers... I was married with a ceremony and dress for under $1000 plus my jewellery was about $300 (more or less, my husband won't tell me how much he paid)...and I am not ugly, I am educated too, born in Canada, and a good person (at least that is what my husband tells me!) Have been married about 7 years now.  Women should not demand extravagant weddings to impress others, they should look at the character of the man...
    Ahmad....
    EXACTLY!!!
    We either follow Shariah, or we don't! Simple...
    We either follow shariah, man provides, woman stays modest, obeys etc. OR Women gets FULL RIGHTS but with that comes "Half the bill" because, Full rights + Man pays everything is bullshit! It's unfair to men.

    Maher
    Absolutely true, most guys, even well within their thirties still can't afford a house or an apartment in Amman. All they saved (if they saved) would likely get them barely married! and it's getting worse by the minute. But you know what? That's the good fortune of the regular-non-Alpha-women who are not trying to have their cake and eat it too. But have enough contentment to struggle along side the man. In these tough times. Those are true treasures...

    Anisa
    I did as you if you have a sister before and you ignored me :(
    That's exactly my point. Woman's education, looks or "other" don't  mean anything. And shouldn't come with a price-tag associated with it. It's the character that counts
    • #25
    • mona
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 1/19/2008 11:30:03 PM
    Would I let my only daughter marry a 22 year old guy freshly graduated from university? No, unless I know him and his family really well & I know that he is mature enough (mentally & emotionally) to start a family. Many 22 year old males are still thinking & behaving like teenagers sadly & can in no way be trusted with the huge resposibility of starting a family & raising kids. My brother got married at the age of 24, but by that time he had worked at 3 different jobs to save enough money to actually raise the subject with my dad ( who then helped with the rest of the expenses).
    Bas Allah ykhaleek ya 3am Qwiader, haddi a3sabak shway!!! Shoo malak dayman m3aseb???
    Ana mish ma3asseb wallahi ya Mona, I'm just upset with the social norms. Our society is changing in a bad way. And us (young men) are paying the price
    • #27
    • Anisa
    • Windows Internet Explorer
    • Said
    • On: 1/20/2008 4:26:42 AM
    Gee Qwaider, I didn't think you  were serious!  Well no, I don't have a sister, sorry!
    hmmm, see its simple demand and supply : ) you demand trophy wives, they know they cannot make anything of them selves, so they put a high price tag on them selves or so do their families. were as if men demanded wives with brains or personalty or any kind of achievement, they will find those to have more inelegance and self sufficiency than to ask the man to pay for them, in that case you will find two equal people starting a life together in no regard to finances and who paid for what.

    Now your subject has so many aspects I just commented on one side : )
    • #29
    • KJ
    • Windows Firefox Browser
    • Said
    • On: 1/21/2008 12:52:36 PM
    Oh, the marriage topic.

    I don't quite have the best view on the topic because my way of thinking is unconventional to begin with.

    I would rather not speak on the behalf of all men or women. I would speak on my behalf and say that I don't see myself now ready to get married. Although I am financially able to make some sort of wedding (with some family input), I personally find the concept of extravaganza weddings to be a gesture of showing off - an in the Arabic culture it is just to show how many VIP people you can invite. I would rather have a small close friends and limited family wedding out in an open area/lawn/grassland/sea thing.

    Money issues aside, I don't see myself also to be mentally ready for marriage. I don't see myself to be mature enough to get married. Admittedly - and I hate to boast - I am a responsible person and because of this responsibility I don't think it is fair that I get married and then not be mentally ready to handle the married life.

    Now until I cover these areas and others, marriage from my side is out of the question bas ma bta3ref keef rabbak bikoon kateblak.

    Anyway, I just thought I'd give my personal input on this rather than a general input and give people the wrong impression lol
    Some people complain that you write too much about marriage for a single guy, but I think you somehow manage to find a new angle.

    It's interesting to watch the "new" independant arab woman and her requirements for an ideal man.

    The power of choice, option 1, be traditional and just aim to land a husband ? or option 2 aim to be an equal to men, and aim for a good career ? or go for option 2 so that you can have a better option 1, but don't wait too long !!!
    I do write about marriage a lot, because it occupies a large amount of my cranium! In addition to the 24/7 nagging of the familia! I'm thinking, if I can discuss this with more people. I will understand things that I never thought of before

    And as a single dude, what ELSE could be taking too much of my mind?!
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