How Arabs measure success!

By: Qwaider

On:Sunday, October 21, 2007 7:23:09 AM
In:Thoughts
Viewed: (8619) times

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I had such a lovely afternoon with an Arabic doctor visiting from Indiana. Who left me a wonderful little whisper couple of days ago:

Hey Qwaider,
My name is Rami ***, I have been reading your blog for over a year now and feel that I know you...I want to ask you for a favor...*** ...I dont know anybody else who lives there and want your honest opnion about the area?
thanks in advance...I enjoy reading your blog ...keep up the good work.
Rami

What started as a simple "Hi" turned to a lovely afternoon in the company of a very promising OBGYN (didn't really try for sure, but he seemed to be very smart). Turns out, he's friend of Hareega's and is a faithful reader of so many of the Arab and Jordanian blogs as it keeps him "feeling connected to home"

So, we had such an organic discussion and a lovely exchange of ideas. We even snapped couple of shots of the area's monuments.

Then we had a discussion about "The measurement of success" and I really felt upset that at the end of the day, according to the Arabic predominant culture nowadays, success is defined by the following three items:

How much money they accumulate in their life
Get married and have kids
How these kids achieve in their life

Very sad indeed! That leaves no room for anything! Someone who achieves a Nobel prize will never be a success unless he has all the three above! Someone who might discover the cure for cancer, or win a war against the enemies or even save the planet is a nobody unless they get married and make babies!

Some people kill me when a woman (in particular) seem to have collected the wisdom of the ages, and enjoys the ooh's and ahh's as she present her pride and joy to the world. A little baby. Something, a dog can do! Dogs don't seem to get more intelligent or successful when they have babies! Or do they?

Sometimes, I agree with Tinkerbella that some people should never have babies. But I trun around and look at my culture and find that it's rooted within my DNA to procreate, after all, it's part of being successful.

I have to admit, I really can't isolate myself from the pillars of my culture. That doesn't mean they're right. And it doesn't mean that I'm weak. But I certainly have the prerogative to call something out as being wrong! And have to change if we intend to really progress in this life!

A single man, who is happy with his life, is not necessarily a failure if that's his choice! A single poor woman who is satisfied with her life among the books and the great authors is not a failure if that's her choice!

Life does exist outside of marriage and babies! Single people are not a bunch of losers! No body was born married, and having kids is really not a big deal! It's the only thing that humanity learned to do before we discovered fire, or even learned how to speak!!

I guess my Qwaiderization of the day is: Success is a plate you hate but everyone else thinks is great!

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Memories....

#1
Maioush
Said
On: 10/21/2007 8:30:51 AM

First of all, I’m glad you had a lovely night with one of your readers :) that’s nice…
Now to the subject:
You forgot a very important point, a guy CHOOSES to stay single because in his opinion he is successful the way he is, there is nothing wrong with that right? People won’t look different at him. BUT…. When a girl enjoys being around her books and tries to achieve something in her life away from marriage, people will say stuff like “she has issues”, “ya 7aram sha’3lat 7alha bel draseh mshan ma tzawajat”, “m3a2adeh l2nno m3anseh” (although she is the one who choose NOT to get married exactly like that guys did, but will the society leave her alone??? I guess you know the answer for that question very well right?

#2
أنونيموس
Said
On: 10/21/2007 8:33:55 AM

While trying to figure out what our cultural trends our like, a friend of mine once stated that generally, Americans wish their children happiness, while Asians wish their children success. Where do Arabs fall in?
I thought it was a mixture of two, but I think your points just break it down even better. We are wished financial wealth because we think it's interlinked with success. We are wished partners and children because we assume that it's the sure-footed way to happiness.
You can't be too sarcastic because it does work for most people. It's just that instead of taking on the pity tone or feeling sorry for people who don't fit into those rules- they need to recognize that you can also be successful- and happy- without fulfilling the above requirements!

#3
golbalorama
Said
On: 10/21/2007 10:36:32 AM

Success is achieving goals. no matter what those goals are.
my goal might be to sell baleelah. then, I am successful if I do it. Arabs, and my parents included, do not see it that way. they are all about keeping up appearances.

#4
chikapappi
Said
On: 10/21/2007 2:32:22 PM

well, look at the world around you, nothing else left for people to do but go have more dumb babies to this miserble world bs this is in Islam.. it's not the only goal I mean bas everything you do in life is a measurement to how well you're doing... success is not a certificate or salary, it's what you have ready for the end :)

#5
Mohanned
Said
On: 10/21/2007 3:17:26 PM

It is not a big deal? I don't know Q, I think it is! To get married, settelled and becoming a father is a very big deal, sure it shouldn't be the ultimate goal where after achieving this you rest in peace, but you reach a state of mind that you have never experinced before, your life becomes more meaningful and purposful; in other words life becomes a different type of enjoyment.

As for being successful; it is about making more right choices than bad ones.

If you get married to the right woman, life becomes easier; you gain focus :)

Salam.

Beddeesh a77aref bas, man esta6a3 el ba2at fal yatzawwaj.
"El mal wal banoon zeenat el 7aya"
and many more...

#6
afaf
Said
On: 10/21/2007 7:17:42 PM

i presonally thought my late husband, wanted to get married due to pressure from his family, yallah have ur own kids, but it turned out to be that he achieved all he could have dreamed of and more and then he simply felt the need to make a family and have kids, and i cannot tell if it is due to the fact that he had certain time limit to spare in life...but i guess he did the right thing...and NO...noone ever claimed that all ppl should get married cuz it is the only right way...i always wished for a kid, but no husband, be careful to what u wish for...and i still recall how old ppl would think of single men who turn old unmarried, they would call them either "gays or simply impotent"...excuse my french....
the bottom line, there is no right or wrong here, so many contraversies, and no one can claim rightous over the other....just do what u feel u wanna do when u want to do, not due to pressure from others..being married or unmarried is the not the end of the world...it is not!!!but it would be easier for ppl to invite a married man over an unmarried one!!!unless they r doing some matchmaking!!!
peace to all....

#7
Qwaider
Said
On: 10/21/2007 8:15:02 PM

Maioush
I don't think the society is particularly easier on one gender more than the other in this case. Although they look with compassion at the woman without marriage. They look at the man with Anger and disapproval. The woman gets the "Oh her naseeb didn't come" while the man gets "Why didn't YOU try to do something about it"

انونيموس
Arabs fall under, "I wish my kids get money, get married and have kids. happiness, [career]success are irrelevant"

Globalorama
Goals? Really? What if you're goals are just too simplistic? or too hard to achieve because you wish for too much. "Success is starting to sound like a plate you hate but everyone else thinks is great!"

Chikapappi
I don't think nothing else is left to do. And I'm not sure this is related to Islam, I think it's more of a cultural thing. But I love what you said about how success is what you have prepared for the afterlife

Mohanned
That hadith (Man istata3 al Ba2ah) doesn't really specify that Marriage is the ultimate goal in life. It stated that it's encouraged, not that it's the ultimate goal, or the best achievement there is. If you can do it.. do it!
And I disagree on the "Focus" and "Purpose". You mean to say, all unmarried people lack focus and purpose? That's really not true. In fact, MOST of the achievements of a person happen BEFORE they're married, once they are. They become selfish and get consumed by their marriage life. They're not even good to their own parents most of the time! So that statement is a false generalization, that I've seen the opposite of it than I have seen it come true

Afaf,
Yeah, It's not the end of the world. And it does -sometimes- make life easier. But what's wrong with unmarried men? Are they going to eat the guy's wife!!

#8
afaf
Said
On: 10/21/2007 9:18:15 PM

i donot mind that at all...i mean if my husband has an unmarried male friend...but been there and done that...i mean our society doesnot give the unmarried person (m/f) a chance, treat them like they r like germ u simply cnanot invite to ur house..i personally was isolated and some of friends aleignated me after i lost my husband, as if i was gonna steal one of their MEN (husbands)...execuse me!!!
so it is not easy in our society for unmarried m/f....that was my conclusion!!!

#9
Mohanned
Said
On: 10/21/2007 10:04:24 PM

Purposes differ from one person to another, most people prefer to settle; going the extra mile is not limited by marriage, but for some people it is. As for how you define one being capable of getting married, that's beyond my knowledge, but I know that if you are capable financialy and mentally then you should-this should is more like a must- get married.

As for achieving before getting married, I think you fell in the same fallacy that you assumed I fell in-there is a saying that goes beyond borders and cultures that says "behind every great man there is a great woman". A woman can bring the best out of you or the worst, it depends on you and your choices.(How many good decisions you made versus the bad ones)

As for the Focus part, if she is a good wife, I can assure you that you will gain focus, but, it is not always her, people in general tend to blame for failures.

Lastly, yes your life becomes more purposful after having a family; defining purposes is a personal issue that vary from one person to another. My purpose is to achive my own personal goals that is built around my family, if I had to choose, I will choose my family.

On a side note, one of my psychology professors told me that Microsoft is having some trouble regarding this specific issue, and they are trying to do something about it- Bill gates set a standard of hard work, and people at microsoft are being over-worked, which caused the divorce rate between corporate employees to hike. Qwaider, having a purposful life and being setteled with a good family is closely related to success in the corporate world- many studies support this.

#10
Qwaider
Said
On: 10/21/2007 11:11:12 PM

Afaf,
I think that is true as well. People who were once married are also avoided as the plague! Somehow people who don't need people to invite them over get invited while people who really need it. Do-not! It's sad. As if someone is going to steal their wife/hubby!

Mohannad,
No habeebi, that again is a false generalization. Actually, single people (men and women) are better suited for so many jobs, people with family's can't even touch. People in the Nursing fields, air-hostesses, etc etc are preferred to be single BECAUSE the job mandates that! Does marriage give anyone focus? You tell me, after you read this hypothetical example: "A brain surgeon is getting prepped to operate on a patient. His son has high fever, and his wife has run his credit cards above limit. His 15 year old daughter has a crush on the gardener and he suspects that his wife has an affair with his best friend".. Focus shmocus! Married people are way less focused than single people BECAUSE they have more responsibilities in other words, more to worry about!

"Good family related to success" that is bullshit and you know it. I dare you to bring me ONE study that proves that. In fact, most of the top management ANYWHERE in the world (with the exception of bill gates) are living the bachelor life. They bang the secretaries and the waitresses and have more devastated marriages than anyone else! Yet, they're on the top of the world!

I know, you will come back saying "if she was a good wife" I just want to answer that with one word:
"IF"

#11
Maioush
Said
On: 10/21/2007 11:26:57 PM

Are you serious!!! the society is the biggest problem, and it is waaaaaaaaaaaaay easier on the male in this particular issue, I remember back in college when one of professors was a single woman in her 40’s, she got her PHD from London, I mean she was one of the smartest professors in m faculty, el mohem… she argued with one of the students over something one of the other professors said in another class, after a heated debate, you know what most of the student ended up saying “btekrah el shabab l2nha mesh metzawjeh” they throw everything she did in her life, and they judge her based on her martial status!!! I mean 5alas, she has issues in their opinion, o ma btefham eshi o ma ba3erf shi just cuz she is not married!!! If it was a male professor I’m 100% sure they would never say that! And you are telling me the society is easier?? I don’t think so bel marra!!

#12
Qwaider
Said
On: 10/21/2007 11:34:15 PM

Maioush,
If all we're going to disagree about is the mount of "ease" the society gives the two. Then I'm happy with that!

Both are suffering of this stupidity, who suffers more, it doesn't matter. Sa7?

#13
Maioush
Said
On: 10/21/2007 11:48:02 PM

Sa7, both are suffering, I agree.. in fact I’m not disagreeing with you over this article, what you discussed is a very sad fact, and tell you what, no matter what you do, you will not be successful enough for those people, they will always find something to ruin it for you, “shoof flan be3mal floos aktar menak” “shoof 3ellan marto met3almeh aktar” “shoof batee5 keef wlado a7san mn wladak” … stupid stupid stupid stuff walahi…

#14
Mohanned
Said
On: 10/21/2007 11:52:17 PM

"People in the Nursing fields, air-hostesses, etc etc are preferred to be single BECAUSE the job mandates that! "
They chose this way of life, so they have no right to bitch and moan!

"hypothetical", you said it amigo!And if so, he shouldn't operate, I suppose that a brain surgeon is smart enough to read the situation he is in! Come on man, enta ga3ed btla7'em!

As for case studies: Google scholar, homey!

Lastly for the "IF": If you can't make the right choice when choosing a wife, and same thing for women who fail to choose the right men, then they are the loosers!

There is no IFs, if is an escape of failure. Either you make the right decision or chill out and don't preach!

And habibi albi, take it easy, mesh mestahleh teflat a39abak :)

Abooy kan dayman ygool: El sage6 sage6, o fe3lan el sage6 sage6, because anyone who can make his/her own choices is the only one responsible for his/her "bad" choices!

Salam ya m3allem ;)

#15
Qwaider
Said
On: 10/22/2007 12:10:29 AM

People Choose the way of life? come on man! The JOB prefers singles! It's just how it is. It doesn't matter though, that's not important. What's important is that YOU CAN BE SUCCESSFUL and FOCUSED without marriage!

Hypothetical situation I gave you is more probable that say .. having a wife that "might" be good! Even good ones have their times!

I know how to google, how about you save me the time and prove your bullshit!? Waste some time and maybe You will discover that you made a false generalization.

LOL@ your STUPID generalization that followed about how people are Losers because they didn't choose wisely! Yes it's stupid, VERY STUPID. And no I'm not insulting you. But what you just said is the most stupid thing you have ever said in your whole life (that I know of)
Thinking that someone KNOWS how to choose because they -somehow- got lucky with their spouse doesn't mean that it's the norm!
Sometime, people change. Other times, people don't know, and many times people discover the other's reality AFTER they got married!
People have issues in their marriages. In fact MOST people have problems in their marriages. It's not milk and honey, it's far from it. It's hard work!

As for el Sage6 Sage6! Hmm I'm not so sure, some people have the tendencies to turn their life around and to the contrary some of the MOST SUCCESSFUL PEOPLE (by world standards) had failed marriages!

#16
Qwaider
Said
On: 10/22/2007 12:13:47 AM

By the way, if you think that because you're doing your PHD you're going to have success ALSO in your marriage then you MUST BE CRAZY!

These things are not freakin related! Being successful in your career and your studies have NOTHING to do with being successful in marriage!

All I can say is grow up (and I'm saying this with best of intentions. From an older brother to a younger brother who still has A LOT to learn)

See, this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about, a KID who made a baby, giving wisdom to the world just because he made a baby!

#17
Mohanned
Said
On: 10/22/2007 1:37:27 AM

:D
Wallahe you make me laugh man...
Take it easy la y6ogellak 3ereg ;)
As for bullshit, I have no comment on this! I am just surprised by what came out of your mouth.
You have no respect for anyone.
As for failure and success you seem to be lost about the definition of both, thats why you have been struggling(This is from a younger brother who is still a kid and has his life to learn)

And by the way I was not giving you or anyone advice, I thought this was a civilized debate, But I was wrong!

As for me being a kid, thanks jeddo Q for the appreciation..And my baby is worth the world to me, some feelings that humans have need to be experienced before spilling bullshit all over the web..

And for those who worship $$$$$$ I say: GOOD LUCK!
BTW 90% of arab amercha are $$$ worshippers...And yes I will generalize because if any of them had any dignity left they would either shut up or pack their bags, sons and daughters and go back to their home countries..

Yedrab el dolllllaaaaar sho bezzzzel:)

No offence of course, this is a brotherly discussion :D

#18
Mohanned
Said
On: 10/22/2007 1:41:35 AM

And before I forget, it is google scholar, not the regular google..
You know you are a scholar so the regular google won't do you any good :)

#19
Qwaider
Said
On: 10/22/2007 2:37:05 AM

Mohanned,
I respect everyone, including you! More than you can imagine. But Man, seriously, what you said was utter stupidity! I'm not saying that you are stupid. I'm just saying that what you said was really, really really stupid! Many people have come up with stupid ideas from time to time.

I'm not struggling with the the meaning of failure and success. I already have my own definition (similar to what many have said above) but what we're discussing here is not my definition, it's the cultural definition. We're criticizing the negatives of the society here. On the hope that maybe one day we can change them!

As for your baby, I'm positive it means the world to you. But that's no achievement. That's one thing that we human learned to do, before we even learned to speak! Measuring success in this way is sad!

Now, regarding the stupidity part. Don't you think it's complete stupidity to think that someone is going to have good fortune in life and marriage just because they "think" they made the correct choice.
I've seen people who had the blessings of both families and were envied by everyone on their marriage. Only to face failure of the greatest proportions.

Sure, a good choice will enhance the odds, but there are no guarantees my friend. There are no guarantees what so ever!

Now regarding, Arab Americans, I have no idea how this is related. But Apparently, marriage didn't help you focus on the issue at hand. I suggest trying some single time. Maybe that will help you focus :) LOL!
But can you tell me with a straight face that Arab-Arabia don't worship money either?

#20
Qwaider
Said
On: 10/22/2007 2:37:48 AM

Oh and Mohanned, if I was too harsh on you. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to insult you.

#21
Mohanned
Said
On: 10/22/2007 3:40:20 AM

:)
Habibi enta..
Qwaider, enta ga3ed btla7'em, fee communication issues that you need to work on, I don't think that I am the first one to tell you this nor I will be the last.

And you were the one that brought the thing about having kids, and who said that having kids creates success?Part of success in being a parent is raising good kids, educating them and paving their way to future, if you do so then you are a successful father/mother, and being a successful parent doesn't imply that you will be a success in other aspects of life.

I am sure you know many great parents that saw success in their kids, and considered this to be the greatest accomplishment.

Now regarding marriage, it is a personal issue, some failures doesn't mean that there is no good in marriage. I am not going to give advice because like you said I am still a kid, but if age is how we measure maturity then I say to you Good luck with that-and I am not talking about myself here.

" But Man, seriously, what you said was utter stupidity! I'm not saying that you are stupid. I'm just saying that what you said was really, really really stupid! Many people have come up with stupid ideas from time to time."

Communication Q, Communication, it is the holy grail of success..

Good night man and good luck, but sometimes I seriously feel sad, not because you insult and degrade people, but because I expect you to be more respectful to people.

I won't let this ruin my night, you know why?

Because the BEARS WON :) Go bears!

#22
Qwaider
Said
On: 10/22/2007 4:03:49 AM

No Mohanned, I don't have communication issues. And this is by the words of communication specialists. So I'm sorry if I take their word over yours.
Again, the issue is about the social view of the matter not what I personally, or you personally define success to be.

As regarding marriages. Success of some doesn't imply success of everyone. whatever that might be. Age is not related to maturity, but it helps define how much people have seen in their lives to be able to come out with wise decisions and social advice.

Mohanned, I don't insult and degrade people, You brought this on yourself with you STUPID words and bullshit conclusions. You have in fact insulted more people with that false generalization

If you still feel insulted, so be it. You've said something stupid and your pride is not allowing you to admit your err! I already feel sorry for your students. And I know what they will call you right now!!
I don't need your help in knowing how to respect people. I Respect people, but I don't respect stupidity and arrogance.

#23
Angry Husband
Said
On: 10/22/2007 4:07:38 AM

I can say from experience. That I thought I made the right choice. And people used to envy me on my choice.. (Remember Q?). But it was all a lie. It wasn't real

dude, can you pick me up at the Airport on Tuesday?

Oh Mohanned, Grow up! You're not just young, you're also really very wrong!!

#24
Mohanned
Said
On: 10/22/2007 4:14:01 AM

I will let you know for sure when I get my evaluations :)
I love it when arabs use bullshit..And for me being insulted, don't you worry about that..
Etha ja2atak mathamaton mn.. wel bagi 3endak ya garaba..
this is not to insult you,this is just becaue I love you:)

And stupidity is in the ear of the listener, and to be more accurate it is in the cognitive "process" of the argument reciever, who once needed to consult communication specialists ;)
Peace out..

Habibi enta..

#25
Qwaider
Said
On: 10/22/2007 4:23:56 AM

Specialists funny, this word has "Cialis". Made my anti-spam go nuts!

Stupidity is not in the ear of the listener. The argument is wrong Mohanned habeebi. It's just wrong!

Angry, what time? I have a board review. But anytime after 4 is fine

#26
Hareega
Said
On: 10/22/2007 6:51:10 AM

Sallemli 3a Rami if you see him again :)

#27
asoom
Said
On: 10/22/2007 7:04:24 AM

I totally agree with Maioush's comment #11

#28
asoom
Said
On: 10/22/2007 9:24:06 PM

Mohanned made some good points however I feel the strong need to point out that I dislike the Bears!

#29
mona
Said
On: 10/22/2007 9:25:16 PM

"Mohanned, I don't insult and degrade people, You brought this on yourself with you STUPID words and bullshit conclusions. You have in fact insulted more people with that false generalization." That's quite shocking Qwaider! Please don't get upset with me as well, but this is really harsh and unnecessary.
كما قال تعالى: (وجادلهم بالتي هي أحسن) النحل: 124
الاختلاف في الرأي لا يفسد للود قضية
By the way, I don'nt agree with every thing Mohanned said or disagree with everything you said either. This is a very interesting topic & hopefully more people will add their thoughts as well.

#30
Mohanned
Said
On: 10/22/2007 9:39:39 PM

Asoom, Bears Rule, they suck sometimes but they RULE :D

#31
Qwaider
Said
On: 10/22/2007 9:41:58 PM

Mona, I wouldn't be upset with you for stating your mind. I might have objections to your proposed ideas which I will question. But not your person

What we had above is not a disagreement in opinions! The idea that "You made a poor choice getting married therefore everything bad will follow" is stupid. And I don't mean mohanned is stupid. I just mean that Idea is stupid!
I can cite a ton of stupid ideas that were conceived by Nobel prize winners. But that's really not the point here. People do come up with stupid ideas

As for Asoom, She didn't even read what I said and I am sure had she done that she would have discovered that she agrees more with me than she does with with Mohanned, but our "history" together doesn't allow her to concede a point. Which is fine by me. I know where I stand!

As for me and Mohanned, we go way back. A minor disagreement is not going to even have a tiny scratch on our good relation

#32
Qwaider
Said
On: 10/22/2007 9:46:21 PM

Bears Suck!
Actually, American football as a whole sucks! It's the worst sport on earth if you can call that kharabeesh they do a sport!
It's boring, uneventful and complete brain damage. And I wouldn't waste a moment of my time watching such junk :)

(But that's only me ..)

#33
Mohanned
Said
On: 10/22/2007 10:38:45 PM

The idea that "You made a poor choice getting married therefore everything bad will follow"

You just made this up..Q, go back and read what I said..

Mona, thats who he is, he can't change and I accept him as is :D

As for footbal, I had the same stand like you, but one time a friend of mine made me watch a game where he explained everything to me and the rest is history..

It is the most amusing thing to watch on TV.

#34
Qwaider
Said
On: 10/22/2007 10:42:50 PM

Mohannad... this is what you said:

Lastly for the "IF": If you can't make the right choice when choosing a wife, and same thing for women who fail to choose the right men, then they are the loosers!

Am I wrong to draw the conclusion that you think "I just made up"?
If this is not what you meant than I will withdraw all the stuff I said.

#35
asoom
Said
On: 10/22/2007 10:49:22 PM

Qwaider, I actually did read what you wrote and I read all of the responses, I just didn't want to specifically comment and get dragged into the debate and ruin my good mood from the SAINTS victory!!!! To be completely honest with you I found your post full of BS, but whenever I point that out it doesn't go anywhere. But since you mentioned it.......

"history together"? Ya zalama I've only been around for like 2 months!!!

Anyway, I actually did agree with alot of what mohanned said except I didn't agree with the part where he stated that 90% of arab americans are money worshippers, I would say the statistics are closer to 50%, I don't think the mentality is too much better in Jordan. I definately didn't agree where mohanned equated dignity with leaving to the middle east, that's a viewpoint of my father's and definately not mine.

I'm of the belief that success in life is about balance and that includes family, yes that includes marriage and kids, we were talking about successful lives and not successful careers! I didn't agree with everything that mohanned said but his responses were intelligent and made sense. The man goes to Depaul for a reason! Qwaider, I thought your responses were overly agressive and many times not logical. It's no wonder you're not into american football.

Mohaned, I will never forget last season’s final playoff game, do you remember it? It was Bears versus Saints and determined who played in the super bowl, it was the Saints miracle season and we were “america’s team,” everyone was happy for us including fans of teams that lost to us. I couldn’t believe when I saw the signs of Bears fans during that game: “You should have drowned”, “You don’t deserve to have gotten this far” and “Katrina should have killed you”. I will forever be anti-Bears!

#36
Mohanned
Said
On: 10/22/2007 10:53:02 PM

Yup, if you fail to choose the right wife, or a woman fails to choose the right husband based on free will, then they made a bad decision.

Making one bad decision doesn't make you a looser, but if there is a trend then....

Again, when we first began this "debate" I said that success is about making more right decisions than bad ones.

Read in context, I assumed that we built a line of thought..

My only conservation was your use of "stupid", "bullshit" and to some extent "KID"..But it is ok, you are an older brother :)

7'aleeni afka7 al7ag el train..salam..

#37
Qwaider
Said
On: 10/22/2007 11:52:51 PM

Asoom,
You're biased, if you start from the point where you consider everything I say BS, while every piece of crap that you vomit is really not bs. And that's only because I stomped you in an argument that you were losing! I shouldn't have because at the end, you're an Arab and losing a debate is like poking your eye out. It will never be washed out!

You're completely wrong in your assumptions And you definitely missed the point when I said that success here is not about personal feeling. It's about the way the society views it. I might have said that more than 3 times already. But you choose to see what ever you like to see!! And you're mad at me for a reason. I don't care if you can't really isolate one post from another. THAT is your problem!

AS for going to a specific school or another! Yeah, George bush went to Yale! Did that change anything? I doubt it!

My argument was very logical. And my protest was apparent and simple. If you married the wrong guy, this doesn't make you a Loser! If you fail to understand a simple concept like then there's no use in arguing!

As for the history, it's apparent. 2 months, 15 fights and it all started over your ugly feet! I meant that as a joke. But whatever!

Anyway, I don't care what you think. Because it's obvious we're from two different planets. Pleasing you is not a goal in my life. And what you think of my work is also not a goal, it's enough that you are using my work (and have been for the past 7 years) every time you touch a computer!

#38
Qwaider
Said
On: 10/22/2007 11:55:36 PM

Mohanned, you're trying to confuse the issue by burying it under a ton of unrelated matter. No problem. My problem was with that sentence and not with you personally.
I think that idea was stupid and would have liked it if you went back on it. But maybe I was too harsh (min el 3asham) but I wouldn't make that mistake again!

And I'll talk about the "losers" part in my next post!

#39
Mohanned
Said
On: 10/23/2007 12:45:28 AM

I know that there is nothing personal, and I know your debate tactics.
I suggest again that you read what I said in a context.

As for asoom, thank you :) From the arabs that I met here, I came to my own conclusion about the percentage, Myabe I am wrong, and maybe I am right, but if we look at other nationalities especially indians and chinese you can see that they come to the US for a goal, then go back to their home countries.

As for the bears, I never knew they did that, but that doesn't mean that all bear fans are like that :)

Salam..

#40
Fire-Faten
Said
On: 10/23/2007 1:21:30 AM

Shoot, I've been away for so long! :( I missed all the fun!

Now now qwaider, you don't want to get Arabsat upset we all know wastat managed to get him where he is now.

But take it easy on the fella, he made a mistake and his pride isn't allowing him to admit it!

What the heck is wrong with this Asoom? New face? Reminds me of someone ...emmm ... what was her face!? can't remember.

It's alright man, don't listen to these dumbasses!! They're arguing for the sake of argument!

#41
Mohanned
Said
On: 10/23/2007 1:40:21 AM

Ejoo el sa7eejeh..
As for you, I will not degrade myself to your obvious manners..One question: where is the fire in you exactly? Coz I think I think I know where it is ;)

#42
Qwaider
Said
On: 10/23/2007 1:48:11 AM

YAAAYA ... Ijo el S77eejeh!

Don't feel discouraged Fire-Faten. I am sorry I got on your case once in the past ... :D

#43
asoom
Said
On: 10/23/2007 8:05:15 AM

"You're biased, if you start from the point where you consider everything I say BS" I said I found your post full of BS, this specific post.

"And that's only because I stomped you in an argument that you were losing!" I honestly have no clue what you're referring to!

"15 fights and it all started over your ugly feet! I meant that as a joke. But whatever!" OH MY GOD do you really think I would get mad over something like that????? Lots of people said my feet were ugly not just you, it's all in good fun.

Actually the school you go to does say something about a person. Bush went to yale because his dad was a hotshot millionaire american politician, mohannad's dad isn't.

"Anyway, I don't care what you think. Because it's obvious we're from two different planets. Pleasing you is not a goal in my life." Then why do you react in such a defensive manner to people's opposing comments if in fact you don't care what people think?

#44
Zargawi
Said
On: 10/23/2007 8:18:30 AM

Asoom, Mohannad's dad isn't.. but his wasta is :) Lookup, nepotism!

Funny though, Hareega and the rest of our best and brightest, (who actually scored 99% in Tawjihi and got into Medical school) weren't as "lucky" as Mohanned! Check .. you will know

By the way, my name is not Zargawi. But I don't want people to get upset of me. Abu gwaider will cover up my tracks.. I know he will

#45
Qwaider
Said
On: 10/23/2007 8:43:39 AM

Zargawi, fi beer habeebi .. Don't worry.

Asoom,
The school doesn't make the person! I did my undergrad from a 3rd grade university in Amman (El Ahlyyeh) and if you knew what I'm doing right now, you would change your mind completely!

I wonder what you would have said if he actually went to an ivy league or something more prestigious than de-paul! Like one of the Top 100 schools! Heck university of Arkansas ranked higher than de-paul in just about everything but diversity! But that's not the point

Do you know where did Einstein graduate school from? And he changed the world! Where you graduate from will help you only as much as your ambition is willing to take you

#47
Fire-Faten
Said
On: 10/23/2007 1:55:03 PM

Why do I feel that everything that happened here is my fault?
Why can't a single exchange of ideas be productive and respectful?
I went up and read all the comments from the beginning, and everything was fine until comment #8 and after that. All hell broke loose!
It was obvious the Asoom and Mohanned had an issue. (Mohanned I'm sorry if I offended you, but I just read your other comment and felt that you said some nasty stuff)

Long story short, some people just can't agree on a thing.

Qwaider, you don't know enough to make counter arguments. Mohanned is at least married and maybe has an insight that marriage is really a piece of cake. Therefore you would be a loser or crazy to mess it up! I don't know either.

#48
Mohanned
Said
On: 10/23/2007 2:26:57 PM

Zargawi ya zargawi, do you know me habibi? If not then put a piece of candy in your mouth..

We don't have wastas, we have ourselves as a family, and el hamdulela my father and mother did a good job raising 9 educated children. As for me being in the US, I paid every penny, and the rest is a scholarship from my school, If you need my course history I will be happy to send it to you, but the thing is I Don't have to prove you anything, Once I become "something" you have the right to see all my history, though I doubt it..

Salam ya garaba.

#50
rumana
Said
On: 10/23/2007 4:27:49 PM

Mohanned: once i become (something )you have the right to see all my history.something like what?

#51
Qwaider
Said
On: 10/23/2007 5:33:55 PM

Mohannad, no one else can read your whispers. Did you intend that comment to be a whisper?

Surprisingly, your whisper has the best content way better than most of your other comments. And it makes sense!
I do realize that I will need to make changes/compromises when I get married. I'll wait until that time ...

I don't think I ignite more fights. I think the subject is very complicated and has many faces. People tend to get consumed in them. They also appear to be very passionate and have very strong feeling towards some of the ideas!

#52
Qwaider
Said
On: 10/23/2007 5:42:00 PM

Asoom
Sorry for the late response
Look, I'm willing to turn the other cheek if you think you can turn the page and move on from our strong disagreements. But this bickering is useless. It's like a bad marriage or something!
Anyway, I'll start afresh with you. Try to isolate our experiences together from the idea and let me know what you think.
I do care about what people think. And you included. But I really will not be able to please everyone, all the time

Fire-Faten
No it's not your fault. It's apparent that everyone has their own ideas and they're very passionate about them
But I disagree on what you said. Take for example someone suffering from a disease. He's experiencing it, but does this make him know more about it than the doctor? I doubt it
Oops! No, I'm not claiming to be the doctor, but sometimes an impartial observer might be more successful in some of these matters

Rumana
LOL

#53
Mohanned
Said
On: 10/23/2007 6:00:10 PM

I know about whispers :)
There was part for you and only you(between the stars)
The first part was for someone else..

Ruammana: you know what I mean;)

#54
Qwaider
Said
On: 10/23/2007 6:04:53 PM

Mohanned, how can "the someone else" read it?

#55
Mohanned
Said
On: 10/23/2007 6:20:19 PM

I thought you can edit it after reading it, thats all, next times I will just do two seperate comments ;)

#56
rumana
Said
On: 10/23/2007 8:26:19 PM

Mohanned- oh, you mean enta mad3oom.

#57
Mohanned
Said
On: 10/23/2007 8:50:27 PM

rumana,
walla ya ret, wassae6i mesh ktheer gawwayeh betgdar/i tgool/i, bas marrat esm el 3eleh bewwahem el nas el ghasheemen sharwak/i..

#58
asoom
Said
On: 10/25/2007 5:06:56 AM

zarqawi, that was a low blow! Anyway, when it comes to academia in the US wastat don't get you very far (I'm the perfect example but I don't feel like talking about my story). Whatever your accusation is it doesn't change the fact the mohanned is intelligent.

qwaider, I appreciate the peace offering although it's actually not necessary. If I like what you say and have a reaction then you'll know and if I don't like what you say and have a reaction you'll also know, LOL! Pretty simple, sa7? If my goal was to be pleased by you or other bloggers I would be responding in a different way but that's not what I'm after. Believe it or not I’m actually not a fan of bickering myself, which is why I have a tendency to ignore. Again, thanks for the gesture!

#59
Qwaider
Said
On: 10/25/2007 5:15:46 AM

Asoom, I also appreciate the fact that you decided not to be a hypocrite and remain true to what you believe. I find that admirable. Therefore. Please feel free to say whatever you like. But if I can't explain the reason for the objection :) ... well you know the rest!

#60
asoom
Said
On: 10/25/2007 5:35:34 AM

well that was a positive response! LOL, thanks for the compliment :)

#61
Hani Obaid
Said
On: 10/29/2007 6:15:05 AM

"it's enough that you are using my work (and have been for the past 7 years) every time you touch a computer!"

Would you care to elaborate ?

#62
Hani Obaid
Said
On: 10/29/2007 6:17:43 AM

"this word has "Cialis". Made my anti-spam go nuts!"

I was curious so I looked it up. It's the brand for a drug used to treate erectile dysfunciton. Those types of drugs are frequently advertised by spam.

#63
Qwaider
Said
On: 10/29/2007 8:23:37 AM

That's true Hani
Why did you remove the link to your blog from your address?

As for what I've done. I'll keep that to my self :)

#64
Hani Obaid
Said
On: 10/29/2007 9:31:36 AM

I think I logged in one time and commented without filling it out, and now it won't let me change it (although it will let me change the name/email), probably until I clear the cookie. I thought it was a firefox issue, but seems to be the same on IE.